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One, I have enough cats without taking on another one. It's been insinuated by some here that I myself am a hoarder and here you are suggesting I adopt another one?
I didn't suggest you adopt him to keep forever. I didn't keep all the cats I come across forever. They were vetted, and when as healthy as they can be, I found homes for them.
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Two, I have just about all the strength I have to fight for my own cause here without fighting for any other causes. The energy I do have left over I attempt having a life for me to keep things in balance. I do have a right to my own life when I am finished caring for all the animals I do on a daily basis.
Three, the shelter I am describing is the ASPCA.
And they're a no-kill shelter where you live? You may need to call another shelter and describe what's going on there then. Or contact the Humane Society. You can even talk to one of your town fathers or elected officials. There has to be someone in your area who can get involved and help you find the answer of how you can get things changed. I'm not suggesting you go there an spend hours of your time cleaning pans or playing with the kitties.
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Four, I am not alone who feel as I do, those of us who care for ill or special needs cats whose option it is if upon an early demise, they have plans for euthanizing their cats.
Whatever you're comfortable with is what you have to do.
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Five, death is nothing to be scared of, and is preferred in my opinion, then EVER putting any of my cats in a shelter. My cats are NOT adoptable......ask my vet if you don't believe me.
I don't know who she is. GEO, don't be so negative. As you took them in, someone else would take them in. Keep in mind there are lonely people out there who need to feel needed and useful. Maybe they themselves are disabled. Or they have no family left to dote on. A special needs kitty would make them very happy and satisfied. They wold feel needed by something. If you watch Animal Planet they've talked to some of these people. They're very loving compassionate people who just need to feel needed. One woman even adopted a cat that was paralyzed and had to wear a diaper.
Some people wont adopt cats with flaws. I did! No one wanted Zephyr because of her deformed tail. Her time was almost up. Her little paw came out of the cage towards me and it was instant love. We love her to bits. Zebulon has nystigmas in both of his pretty blue eyes so no one wanted him - until I came along. He looked at me and let out a pitiful little cry. I went back and got him later that day. He sees just fine. We love the little man to death. Phaedra had such an URI that she was in the back room of the shelter as they didn't expect the 6 week old to live. She was sneezing mucus and blood. She was all fluff and whiskers. She was too weak to treat for her coccidia infection. I took her - straight to my vet. She was put on meds and soon thrived. She's a small cat now, but 100% healthy the vet said. Had one of these been a special needs cat, I would have taken them anyway.
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Six, I am done with this thread and this badminton game here. Nothing I say you hear, or should I say, understand. Why? Oh for one, you don't walk my shoes, you don't have the mountains of responsibilities I do, and you don't have the challenges in your life as I do mine. I do my best in all I do every minute of every day, and if you don't understand or approve, I am past caring. I have to live with me, not you.
I hear you very well but will not pretend to agree with everything you say or post. This is a discussion board after all. You have no idea of what I've done for animals in the past or how many I had at one time in my home. You seem to think you're the only one who ever had more than a few pets that needed care. I've had sick pups and kittens from pet shops that closed in the city. Pregnant cats to foster. I had abandoned pups and kittens to bottle feed that I had to take to work with me each day. I had unwanted rabbits and guinea pigs people dumped on my porch in the middle of the night until I could find placements for them. I squeezed in volunteering at the Chernak Shelter after work a few nights a week when I could. And through all this I managed to hold down a full time job and raise a child. So don't tell me what it's like to have to take care of 15 cats with the help of your husband, no job and no children to raise.
It's only now, in my senior years that my husband, my lifestyle and my location precludes me from turning this place into some kind of shelter to temporarily take in everything as I did in the past. Some day, when we're done traveling, I already made plans to foster mother cats and abandoned kittens - to give life a chance.
Sounds like some here have not experienced what a legit no-kill shelter and its programs are like. Here's an example of a reputable no-kill shelter organization in my area: Animal Friends: Animal Friends: Home Page Note the 4-star Charity Navigator rating. Doesn't get any better than that. And they don't just take in animals and adopt them out; they work at trying to cut the population with education programs, spay/neuter at low or zero cost, etc.
Loners who start new rescue/shelter endeavors on their own often do have their hearts in the right place but may not be able to build into a sustainable organization. This can leave the fate of the animals in limbo. The big thing at Caboodle Ranch to me is no adoptions. If you're not going to do adoptions, why take in animals that might otherwise be perfectly adoptable? That doesn't really make sense; there are existing shelter orgs that could take those in and FIND HOMES FOR THEM. Then again, the nature of the setup at Caboodle suggests to me that the cats may become more accustomed to LESS human contact and thus may get less adoptable the more time they spend there.
Who knows, maybe this guy will succeed. The recent info seems positive, but how can I tell from afar? I can't tell much. So in general I am neutral towards it for now, except that I don't think he should be taking in adoptable cats when they could instead be placed somewhere where an actual adoption might happen.
I thought that is why he has volunteers, to play with the cats so they will be around humans and not get wild. He also may think the cats at his place are perfectly happy to be there so why adopt them out to go to a not so desirable home. Cats love to have the run of the place and it seems they have it at Caboodle.
Sounds like some here have not experienced what a legit no-kill shelter and its programs are like. Here's an example of a reputable no-kill shelter organization in my area: Animal Friends: Animal Friends: Home Page Note the 4-star Charity Navigator rating. Doesn't get any better than that. And they don't just take in animals and adopt them out; they work at trying to cut the population with education programs, spay/neuter at low or zero cost, etc.
Loners who start new rescue/shelter endeavors on their own often do have their hearts in the right place but may not be able to build into a sustainable organization. This can leave the fate of the animals in limbo. The big thing at Caboodle Ranch to me is no adoptions. If you're not going to do adoptions, why take in animals that might otherwise be perfectly adoptable? That doesn't really make sense; there are existing shelter orgs that could take those in and FIND HOMES FOR THEM. Then again, the nature of the setup at Caboodle suggests to me that the cats may become more accustomed to LESS human contact and thus may get less adoptable the more time they spend there.
Who knows, maybe this guy will succeed. The recent info seems positive, but how can I tell from afar? I can't tell much. So in general I am neutral towards it for now, except that I don't think he should be taking in adoptable cats when they could instead be placed somewhere where an actual adoption might happen.
Greg, thank you for the link. How I WISH places like that existed here locally where I live.
If you haven't caught on, the area I live in does not have animals high on a priority list. The animal lovers here know the "truth" about the shelters and several other organizations, and how demeaning on the whole, animals are treated. And we are riled, believe me! We are doing everything we can to change the situation here by living our lives as an example. THAT is how change begins with YOU.
My neighbor for example, she loves Mastiff dogs. She has these dogs trained as therapy dogs at her own expense, and then she has made waves (oh you don't know how German heritage comes in handy as in determination ) to bring her dogs into some of the hospitals here for the patients to love. And she is making progress! She is showing the world how smart and how loving animals are and how they DESERVE to be treated with the utmost respect and love. She is making people THINK.
I am doing the very same but with special needs cats.
CHANGE begins with the individual and then it is like a ripple effect. People SEE what you are doing different and BETTER, and that gets them to start thinking. When there is enough people who are SEEING that animals here are not being treated right, that is when a movement will begin. Not until then, though. Progress is slow, and it is through example one on one most of the time, but eventually the blinds will be torn off eyes and the "truth" of the matter here will be seen. Until that day.....
I chop wood and carry water, pray, and keep on walking the path I have begun here, treating my animals with the greatest respect and love possible. And when I see or hear a wrong, I talk truth. The "energy" here on our property has gotten so strong, that wild animals come here when they are dying, so that they can die in an environment of peace, love, and safety. And then my husband and I bury the body with ceremony.
That in of itself gives me hope that what I am doing is making a difference. Again, I thank you, Greg, for posting what you did. Someday I hope to live to see changes BIG changes in our society concerning animals.
I have an agreement with someone IF anything should ever happen to BOTH myself and hubs, that all of our babies would be euthanized. No one could ever take care of these babies as we do, and the thought of them wasting away in a no-kill shelter, terrified and ill, puts pure panic in my heart. Even if there was a Caboodle Ranch here, I still would have this plan carried out. All my cats need medication of some sort every day, being either Allopathic or Homeopathic or combination of both, and all get hands- on treatments from me.
This is such a hard topic for me to talk about. I lean on my faith that I will outlive my babies, and that I will be able to take care them for the rest of their natural lives. They are truly our family, and no one that I know of, would gladly adopt a cat with multiple problems such as ours.
Me too Garden of Eden. I worry a little even so, but my sister has promised.
It is the ONLY WAY I can guarantee that they will not end up separated, abused, dumped on the street, or moldering in a cage somewhere.
The emotional attachment between me and my cats, and between each of them is deep. I've seen how a cat grieves, when a beloved companion is gone. And that is with me, and the other cats, and his home, still here. To imagine my cats losing me, and losing one another, going through that emotional devastation, in addition to the other risks that I am no longer there to protect them from? No, that will never happen to them.
There are worse things than death and the above mentioned are worse,in my opinion. They will not happen to my cats, because I am taking them with me.
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Originally Posted by Garden of Eden
Lola, I too volunteered at our no kill shelter, and what I saw there tore me up one side and down another. I couldn't handle it. It did open my eyes as to how overcrowded the shelters here are, and how horrid the conditions are for the poor these cats that live in them are.
What is the sense of keeping a cat alive who does nothing but walk in circles in his cage because his eyes are swirling in his head? No one adopted this guy, and he was in this cage for years. You just don't know how I wanted to adopt him just to bring him in to my vet to put him down. I just don't get it how it is better to keep cats alive for years in cages, then it is to be merciful and have them euthanized.
I read things about Caboodle Ranch and I just don't know how this man does what he does. Or how. These cats seriously cannot all be living a quality life, for there are just too many of them to even know them. I know this man is doing the best he can, but. And that goes for a lot of shelters both here and everywhere. Wouldn't it be just better to have euthanization as an option? Again, what is the sense in keeping an animal alive in a steel cage with no quality of life? Or what is the sense of having cats live in an environment where they are getting no personal attention? I could just cry for all the suffering in this world, and I have many times.
Again, please don't misunderstand me. I applaud the man who is running Caboodle Ranch. His heart is in the right place. Yet, for me this is not an option with my cats, and I have to really investigate deeply before I donate money. I too am skeptical of most charities for the main reason.....you just don't really know where your hard earned money is going. It takes a lot of looking into, at least on my part, to donate monies.
Again I agree. I think it's a horrible horrible way to live. Would he fight to say alive? Yes, he probably would, because cats don't think in the same terms humans do. The will to live is instinctive, until the suffering becomes just too awful. But as humans, we have to power to end the suffering before it gets to that point.
To those who disagree, have you ever euthanized a pet when the pet's quality of life deteriorated? Is there any difference between your beloved pet and the cat forced to live his life out in a cage, or dumped in the woods or fallen into the hands of some sicko? Your pet is spared such suffering because you made a choice. Why don't these "unwanted" pets deserve the same.
There are worse things than death. And I have promised my cats that they will never suffer those things.
(((HUGS))) Catsmom21. (((HUGS))) again! You understand! (tears) God bless you! Your words struck deep chords in me and I agreed with every single one!
It is truly a sign of someone's strength to be able to arrange something as difficult as euthanizing those very precious babies that we love so much. But the alternative? I shudder as you do! My babies have suffered horribly, and now they are so happy, loved, and as healthy as can be. Just the thought of Tigger who was trapped in a steel cage for the first 9 months of his life, to be sentenced to that hell again wants me just to tear my hair out of my head! NO! Or what about the wild cats I love here, who would freak, and I mean freaked, caged in steel bars! NO NO NO!!! I am giving my babies the greatest Gift of Love IF I should leave this earth before them.
I am correcting myself. Some of my cats are adoptable with the dis-ease state they have. Yes. But there you run into huge problems. Why? Read on.
Who is going to take the time to learn how to make raw chicken diet, much less buy all the equipment you need to do so? Many of my cats will not eat canned cat food anymore.
I hope you're ready for honest answers whether you like them or agree with them or not. You know I neither sugar coat things or purposely say things to offend. Here are your answers from someone who was a tech for years and worked with all kinds of animals, including small farm animals for many years. We'll get to my Federal Permit to work with wild birds some other time.
Answer: Yes they will. You yourself very recently mentioned feeding them canned food. It's no different switching them from raw to canned as it is switching them from canned to raw. They will not starve to death. You sound like you're trying to convince yourself these cats will simply die without you. I can assure you, they will not. Cats have an extremely strong will to survive, to live.
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Who is going to learn how to make Molly's salt free food?
Answer: No cat can live without sodium. I hope you know what you're doing. Salt is one of the essential electrolytes. You tip her balance off far enough and she will die. Please speak to your vet about electrolytes.
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Who is going to learn how to observe any of my babies to know when they need a supplement, or herbal pain tincture, or homeopathy? And speaking of which, who is going to study for years homeopathy in order to understand how to treat my babies when they need help?
Answer: Here again you seem to be projecting certain death without YOU. All your cats would be evaluated by a Lic Vet and get the proper and most effective medication for their illnesses or diseases. No need to study homeopathy for years. There are excellent safe pain killers out there for cats. The homeopthy is your issue, not the cats. They can live, as the rest of us do, quite nicely without it.
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Who is going to learn all the hands on healing methods I use? Who is going to learn how to know when one of my babies needs a hands on treatment? And which one?
Answer: A hands on treatment? Healing methods? I'm not sure what you mean by those terms. If you mean proper veterinary type care, medical care, that would be the people at the Rescue, a tech volunteer or their vet or hopefully their new owners.
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Who is going to learn when one of my babies needs comforting and why?
Answer: Please.... they will learn the same way you learned and I learned. Cats are very good at getting their message across to humans.
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Who is going to learn who likes what to eat and how?
Answer: They will learn the same way you learned.
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Who is going to learn how to manipulate my FIV cat to encourage defecation?
Answer: These are such basic questions most people wouldn't have to ask. A Lic. Vet would examine your cat to see WHY it needs "manipulation" to defecate. The cat would treated, with surgery if necessary, to fix the problem.
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And the list goes on........
Answer: Keep asking. I'm sure I can answer any questions you may have.
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As I said, if my cats are not adoptable due to their chronic and multiple problems they have, and the intense care each one needs, then they are not adoptable due to all the very unique and special care I give them.
No GOE. You are quite mistaken. They would do very well without you in the proper environment as my cats would without me. If every one of your cats was taken to a Lic vet who keeps up-to-date on his/her education, and had a complete workup done, you would be in for quite a surprise I believe. Some of the things you've posted here have made several people wonder if some of the issues your cats have are imaginary or caused by your treating them with unproven concoctions and not being a Lic vet. Being an RN, if that's what you were, doesn't qualify you to diagnose and teat cats any more than my years of study and working as a vet tech and Rescuer qualifies me to diagnose and treat cats. If I inherited your cats I would have a complete workup done on every single one of them by a Lic Vet. I would stop all the homeopathy until the reports came back from the lab. The FIVs and FeLVs would be separated from those who are negative. It would be taken from there.
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Kitty, if you can answer just ONE of my questions, my hat is off to you!
I have answered all of them honestly, sincerely and to the best of my ability. I think you mean well with what you're doing with your cats but (psychology 101) there are other issues going on with YOU that I don't have enough experience and eduction to address. If I knew you personally, knew you in person, I could probably get better idea.... but others here have also picked up on it.
If not for my love of cats and all animals, I wouldn't take the time to do all this typing in hopes I could change the situation both you and your cats are in.
To bring things back to the topic of the thread, Caboodle Ranch...I didn't know about the "no adoption" status...that's NOT a good thing! there needs to be money coming IN, and not just from donations !
I've been fantasizing a little bit about what I believe would make the BEST sanctuary, taking the financial needs into consideration..with hundreds of cats to care for, there has to be A LOT of money coming in, and donations just aren't going to cut it in the long-run...once the hype dies out, things can go downhill quickly.
The ideal dream sanctuary IMO would be the one that has 3 things going on besides the sanctuary itself...
1. An on-site vet clinic, complete with holistic, traditional, AND holistic/traditional vets available to assist, depending on what route the client wants to take for their situation...everything from acupuncture to digital x-ray machines and good diagnostics equipment...the more upscale, the better!
2. A fabulous pet food and supplies store where people could buy the best brands of everything from frozen/dehydrated raw diets to supplements, treats, cat towers, etc...with a "shop cat" or two to greet the customers, of course .
3. A "Cat Hotel" for people who need to board their kitties for any length of time...but something "spa" style, with each room having a big window w/perching capabilities, a cat tower, a stylin' bed, and a choice of cuisine .
The sanctuary itself would have to be completely walled in and secure to make sure no 4-legged predators can get in and no cats can get out. There would have to be plenty of indoor AND outdoor space for the cats, and areas would have to be segmented in order to accurately keep track of the health of each cat in each section. Each section would have to be staffed by several people daily to interact with, clean up after, and feed/water the cats. There would also have to be an office to run adoptions out of, etc.
Hopefully, in a scenario like this, the profits from the 3 on-site businesses would generate more than enough money to cover the vetting, feeding, and staffing for the sanctuary cats, and as they got adopted the gap would start to close...
Maybe I'll actually win the lottery for once () and try to make this idea work one day in the future...my mom has always wanted to start a "Cat Hotel" business (she already has a name in mind, actually...LOL !) Hey...you gotta start somewhere, right? If that business took off, then we could open the high-end pet food store...and if THAT took off...well, you get the picture .
Ahhhh, it's lovely to dream, isn't it? Whether the dream comes to fruition or not, it is always the first step in the process....
To bring things back to the topic of the thread, Caboodle Ranch...I didn't know about the "no adoption" status...that's NOT a good thing! there needs to be money coming IN, and not just from donations !
There is money coming in, other than outside donations. He charges 100.00 and up for each cat left there.
To bring things back to the topic of the thread, Caboodle Ranch...I didn't know about the "no adoption" status...that's NOT a good thing! there needs to be money coming IN, and not just from donations
There is a placement fee for each cat, $150. That said, I think that did not happen at the beginning. And although there certainly is some economy of scale in taking care of many cats, it doesn't seem likely to me that $150 covers the remainder of the average cat's life, which means that there could be problems later on if other donations and such don't come through. (Basically it could come out like a ponzi scheme: money given at the beginning pays needs now but at some point it could come crashing down funding-wise.) Plus, at the same time it says "no cat is ever turned away" so I don't know what that ultimately means. I'm sure sometimes people do unannounced drop-offs and such and these don't come with donations in hand.
It's a tough thing to figure out. I hope they manage to pull through it. There certainly is a need for places like this. My beef with the adoption is not to do with income but simply that a forever shelter quite probably is not necessary for a good number of adoptable cats. Healthy cats under a few years old especially should be up for adoption somewhere. I think a better model may be something like Best Friends in Utah, where in some cases dogs and cats are eventually sent back out for adoption after some weeks or months of care. But those for whom adoption still just isn't going to happen do get to stay there forever. You'll find bad things said about that organization too, at least in some places, and they've been around for at least 25 years. (Main issue apparently: org still revolving too much around original founders.) Best Friends Animal Society Home Page
To bring things back to the topic of the thread, Caboodle Ranch...I didn't know about the "no adoption" status...that's NOT a good thing! there needs to be money coming IN, and not just from donations !
This is my concern about the Ranch. Where will the income to keep the place afloat come from as the number of cats increases? GOE's questions were closely related to the topic of this place and where cats can go. I wouldn't consider them off-topic.
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I've been fantasizing a little bit about what I believe would make the BEST sanctuary, taking the financial needs into consideration..with hundreds of cats to care for, there has to be A LOT of money coming in, and donations just aren't going to cut it in the long-run...once the hype dies out, things can go downhill quickly.
Exactly. Wallets start to close. I've seen it happen before. Or if or when he passes away. He's an older man. What happens to the hundreds of cats when that day comes?
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The ideal dream sanctuary IMO would be the one that has 3 things going on besides the sanctuary itself...
1. An on-site vet clinic, complete with holistic, traditional, AND holistic/traditional vets available to assist, depending on what route the client wants to take for their situation...everything from acupuncture to digital x-ray machines and good diagnostics equipment...the more upscale, the better!
2. A fabulous pet food and supplies store where people could buy the best brands of everything from frozen/dehydrated raw diets to supplements, treats, cat towers, etc...with a "shop cat" or two to greet the customers, of course .
3. A "Cat Hotel" for people who need to board their kitties for any length of time...but something "spa" style, with each room having a big window w/perching capabilities, a cat tower, a stylin' bed, and a choice of cuisine .
You've got it all covered. Now you just have to win the multi-million dollar lottery.
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The sanctuary itself would have to be completely walled in and secure to make sure no 4-legged predators can get in and no cats can get out. There would have to be plenty of indoor AND outdoor space for the cats, and areas would have to be segmented in order to accurately keep track of the health of each cat in each section. Each section would have to be staffed by several people daily to interact with, clean up after, and feed/water the cats. There would also have to be an office to run adoptions out of, etc.
The cost would be prohibitive to build a place like that but it could be self sustaining.
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Hopefully, in a scenario like this, the profits from the 3 on-site businesses would generate more than enough money to cover the vetting, feeding, and staffing for the sanctuary cats, and as they got adopted the gap would start to close...
Maybe I'll actually win the lottery for once () and try to make this idea work one day in the future...my mom has always wanted to start a "Cat Hotel" business (she already has a name in mind, actually...LOL !) Hey...you gotta start somewhere, right? If that business took off, then we could open the high-end pet food store...and if THAT took off...well, you get the picture .
Ahhhh, it's lovely to dream, isn't it? Whether the dream comes to fruition or not, it is always the first step in the process....
My pastor always used to say, "The longest journey starts with the first step."
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Had one of these been a special needs cat, I would have taken them anyway. 
Or what is the sense of having cats live in an environment where they are getting no personal attention? I could just cry for all the suffering in this world, and I have many times.
Truthful Answers
they will learn the same way you learned and I learned. Cats are very good at getting their message across to humans. 
A Lic. Vet would examine your cat to see WHY it needs "manipulation" to defecate. The cat would treated, with surgery if necessary, to fix the problem. 
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) and try to make this idea work one day in the future...my mom has always wanted to start a "Cat Hotel" business (she already has a name in mind, actually...LOL 
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