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Old 07-04-2009, 04:47 AM
 
7,126 posts, read 11,706,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina-in-Ashland View Post
, and renting is quickly morphing into the more attractive option. It's the more worrisome option, esp. from afar, but even if we do rent and need to spend $10k down the road fixing it up after a tenant leaves, that is significantly less than we'd lose with one of these goofy, contemporary offers.
Nina-be careful with one might think is a logical decision here. The extent of your "damages" so to speak are not limited to the pssible "10K down the road fixing it up after tenant leaves". Absentee landlording SOMETIMES works by being very pro-active in the management of your rental property. Of, course you can't do that at this point. Property management companies really don't do the kind of management I'm thinking of and they take fees for rentals, court, evictions, re-rental as we all know.

But, beyond the "10K down the road" one should consider the following:
1) From that point forward your house will always be shown as "a rental house" to pros. buyers. That's a negative.
2) Chances that you will get beat for the rent are very high. The economy is in the pits and you are across country with no control. Perfect. . .for them.
3)Your house is not "active" in the sales listing. It gets forgotton. The value goes down and most importantly... who ever said this market will improve?
When? and what will your house be worth then?

My personal opinion is this is not a market to play roulette with unless you have very deep pockets or have an inkling about the market that a whole lot of other people don't have.

In any event, I wish you the best of luck in these very difficult times.
je
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:57 AM
 
7,126 posts, read 11,706,316 times
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Default one further thought crossed my mine

One way to do the "math" with this problem:

Assume for the moment that you never get more than one month's rent and one month of security ( You might ask me why would I only get one month?
B/c that's a reality) AND need to put $10k into the house for repairs and legal after having the tenant-from-hell. Let alone the wear and tear on your stomach, heart and hair loss.

Now weigh those numbers against you leaving the house on the market and moving. Get a good real estate agent and if need be put a few bux into the house now to make it the best house on the street and get your best price now.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Eagle Point, OR :)
279 posts, read 1,086,144 times
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Thank you, John, I appreciate your advice.

Now, where's that crystal ball Ani mentioned? If only it was that simple.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,116 posts, read 17,728,403 times
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there have been tons of people over the past 2 years come on this board and get insulted by what they thought were "lowball" offers, just to realize that after 6-8 months of not selling, those original offers were better than what they've received recently.

When talking about renting, be careful what you wish for.

You may not have to sell now, but what happens 6-8 months down the road when prices depress even further (they WILL, trust me...there are no buyers and inventory is still through the roof), and you get lower offers than your recieving now? Many have went that route and the overwhelming majority wish they should've been aggresive in the first place instead of "testing the waters" so to speak.

Just be careful.....tons have been burned here by your thinking.

just my honest .02 from seeing this same situation played out all the time.....many don't learn.
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Eagle Point, OR :)
279 posts, read 1,086,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
what happens 6-8 months down the road when prices depress even further (they WILL, trust me...
Ah, Jack has the crystal ball! jk

Relax, dude, it's my house, and only my husband and I can decide how much we are willing to lose, which is all relative to the individuals involved.

And if we are "burned" by our thinking down the road, we'll deal with it just like we deal with any other issues in our lives together. In the end, this is a house, a thing. We own it, it doesn't own us.

Last edited by Nina-in-Ashland; 07-04-2009 at 07:36 AM..
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,498,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina-in-Ashland View Post
Thank you, John, I appreciate your advice.

Now, where's that crystal ball Ani mentioned? If only it was that simple.
Nina - I do have a crystal ball, LOL!! Unfortunately, it isn't very reliable for real estate.

Your post stayed on my mind yesterday evening. To me, what you are dealing with is representative of what thousands of people are dealing with "out there" right now. So I continue to contemplate your options.

John and Jack have made some good points here. Lots to think about.

What has me more concerned is the looming (potentially devastating) legislation that the House has passed. If the Senate rubberstamps this bill, we citizens will no longer have the luxury of deciding when we will sell our homes and how much we can market them for. Fannie underwrites over 50% of all loans in this country and if Fannie changes its rules and will no longer underwrite mortgages for homes that are not "green" and comply with whatever arbitrary standards that the Feds set . . . selling one's home is gonna become a very complicated process. And the standards will be issued and become law w/in 180 days of effective date, wh/ I believe it 1/1/2010.

Let's say this heinous piece of legislation passes. That means you have a window of up to 6-9 months to sell your house w/o concern for retrofitting any aspect of your home wh/ may be out of compliance for certifying it as "green." This could be anything from installing energy star appliances, insulation, windows, light fixtures (yes, even light fixtures would have to meet established standards).

I hear people saying - "There is no way the Senate will pass this bill." Well, Obama is pushing this legislation hard and continues to make public statements about its passage and his belief that it will pass - and will quickly pass. I would never have believed the bail out (w/ all its pork) and the stimulus package (w/ all its pork and federal $$ to states) would have passed. Our country is in the worst financial situation in its history - and to think our legislators passed a bill full of BORROWED federal dollars wh/ will be distributed is past irresponsible. Yet, Congress did it!

So how do you roll the dice? Make an assumption that all these restrictions will be in effect in only a matter of months - and slash and burn w/ the price of your home, in hopes you sell it b/f Fannie cuts out loans - and you have to spend some $$$ to retrofit your home?

Do you assume the value of your home is gonna go up when home prices continue to slide? (Some homes in Charlotte are holding value better than others - but is your home located in one of those rare neighborhoods?)

But here is the big question: If you don't sell your house now, and you end up not selling it in 2010 (for whatever reasons) . . . how will this affect your finances and plans for the future?

You see, I believe this legislation is intended to create a class of rental properties. That is a whole different discussion . . . but even if the legislation is not specifically intended to do that, it will definitely have the "unintended consequence" of creating large pools of rental properties - b/c people who need to move with jobs will not have the $$ to retrofit their homes - so to ease the financial burden, they will have no choice but rent in hopes of paying that mortgage - while renting somewhere else.

If that happens, your property will become one of many on the rental market.

So . . . would it be better to get a good renter NOW b/f the market gets flooded in 2010 w/ rental properties . . . or would it be better to sell the house (at a lowered price) just to get out of the mortgage?

My crystal ball is of no help on this one. My gut feeling is that if enough of us start screaming to our Senators next week that this bill is gonna break the back of the property-owner class (wh/ is exactly what it will do) . . . perhaps it won't get passed . . . but my fear is, it will be passed (in some form). I think too many of us fear being labeled "over-reactionary" and so will not speak up - until it is too late (and the bill has become law).

The worst thing you can do at this point is throw up your hands out of desperation and confusion about the future.

When I have a tough decision to make . . . I consider the worst possible scenario. Then I decide - if it comes to that - can I deal with the situation? If the worst possible scenario is writing out a check at closing, then you need to do whatever you feel must be done to avoid that. If the worst possible scenario is moving to another area, getting stuck with a house here that will cost you $20,000 to retrofit b/f you can even put it on the market, then do everything possible to keep that from occurring.

IMHO - this is no time to think about "best possible scenario." Best scenario, we all agree, is that you put off selling the house til the future when the value goes up. However, my honest belief is that nearly 100% of the homes in this region are at their highest valuation (as far as selling price point) RIGHT NOW - especially if this legislation gets passed. In addition, loan interest rates will necessarily be going up next year and municipal tax rate hikes are gonna occur at least by 2011-12. The cost of home ownership is getting ready to soar steadily, starting no later than last quarter of 2010.

Part of this legislation slaps an annual fine on homeowners who own properties w/ a "footprint" larger than some arbitrary figure - I think it is 2500 sq. ft. That will be an additional "tax" to be tagged onto the cost of owning your home, if it is above that square footage threshold.

Weigh all this out . . . you may think you can't afford to bite the bullet now, but that bullet may be much more damaging even six months from today.

To my fellow CD members . . . I apologize for the "doom and gloom." But I think we all need to face what may be down the road. Just b/c it seems absurd - that doesn't mean it won't happen.
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Old 07-04-2009, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,116 posts, read 17,728,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina-in-Ashland View Post
Ah, Jack has the crystal ball! jk

Relax, dude, it's my house, and only my husband and I can decide how much we are willing to lose, which is all relative to the individuals involved.

And if we are "burned" by our thinking down the road, we'll deal with it just like we deal with any other issues in our lives together. In the end, this is a house, a thing. We own it, it doesn't own us.
I'm relaxed. Its just you may not fully understand trends or see where home prices are going because you referred to the offer as a "lowball" offer. Just realize that you might not get something better for a long time....there is just too much inventory out there and not enough qualified buyers. I just wanted to make sure your cool w/that.


Sometimes the blunt truth hurts, but you'll make the best decision if you take as much emotion out of this process as possible.


Good luck.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:52 PM
 
1,039 posts, read 3,005,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Part of this legislation slaps an annual fine on homeowners who own properties w/ a "footprint" larger than some arbitrary figure - I think it is 2500 sq. ft. That will be an additional "tax" to be tagged onto the cost of owning your home, if it is above that square footage threshold.
Ani, I can't find any info on this and would like to read up on it. Can you suggest where I can learn more?

Thanks.
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:42 PM
 
2,908 posts, read 3,873,444 times
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Ani,
Great post. Not sure if I agree about the rental property motive, but it will certainly pad the treasuries coffers.

I did not vote for the Obamassiah, but I did have hopes that he might be different. So far, he has been an astonishing disappointment.
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:52 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,498,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkleoni1 View Post
Ani, I can't find any info on this and would like to read up on it. Can you suggest where I can learn more?

Thanks.
I can get you a link to the entire text of the bill as passed by the House. My eyes crossed up reading it. Unfortunately, the text I had access to does not have page numbers, so it is very difficult to offer citations.


Go to THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Enter H.R. 2454 - make sure you select the engrossed text version
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