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I don't recall ever seeing a discussion on this topic here before. I thought it might be useful to start a thread wherein we can discuss the Fire of God - its attributes, its meanings, and how fire can be seen in both a creative and a destructive way. For example, without the sun (which is very hot) we would have no life on earth. So we need fire. And what about being 'on fire for God'??? And in what sense is our God a Consuming Fire?
I'm convinced that we are literally burning in hell right now (which I know some will find bizarre, and perhaps some might even consider a sacrilegious thought). But I do think hell is in a literal sense this present world where there is much suffering, a lot of destructive fire, and a lot of weeping an gnashing of teeth going on.
I don't recall ever seeing a discussion on this topic here before. I thought it might be useful to start a thread wherein we can discuss the Fire of God - its attributes, its meanings, and how fire can be seen in both a creative and a destructive way. For example, without the sun (which is very hot) we would have no life on earth. So we need fire. And what about being 'on fire for God'??? And in what sense is our God a Consuming Fire?
I'm convinced that we are literally burning in hell right now (which I know some will find bizarre, and perhaps some might even consider a sacrilegious thought). But I do think hell is in a literal sense this present world where there is much suffering, a lot of destructive fire, and a lot of weeping an gnashing of teeth going on.
Wow.. there's lots and lots to say on this subject..
Where to start? I'll just jump in with what comes to mind first:
"Ye shall be salted with fire."
"Do good unto thine enemies; for so doing, ye shall heap coals of fire upon his head."
Gold tried in the fire seven times.
Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego went into the fire, but a fourth one "like unto the Son of God" was there with them.
Cloven tongues of fire upon the disciples (Acts 2).
"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed." Rev. 11
"His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;" Rev. 1
"And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;" Rev. 2
Now, fundamentalists will usually claim that there are "two fires," and that God's consuming fire is NOT the fires of "hell" etc. But this is unbiblical. The scriptures do not distinguish 2 different types of fire.
I have no reason to doubt that the fire of "hell" is nothing more than God Himself.
Someone on Tentmaker made a good point: baptism is done by throwing the person in a lake. There is a baptism of water, and there is a baptism of fire. (John the Baptist knew this) So it is clear that we are to be "baptized" with fire. If we are "on fire" for the Lord, it seems clear from such an expression, that that fire is already kindled.
God's judgments are for our good. They are not what Christendom tells us they are. Without God's judgments, we don't learn anything.
Thou art the Potter, I am the clay. Mold me and make me after Thy will, while I am waiting, yielded and still.
Another one I love, which is not as obvious, is the firing process in the metaphor of God as the potter and us as the clay. The Potter wants us to be pottery, not just clay, so He is molding us and then firing us to bring about that change! Read this from Wikipedia and think about all the aspects of this beautiful metaphor used in the Bible:
Pottery is made by forming a clay body into objects of a required shape and heating them to high temperatures in a kiln to induce reactions that lead to permanent changes including increasing their strength and hardening and setting their shape.
There are wide regional variations in the properties of raw materials used for the production of pottery, and this can lead to wares that are unique in character to a locality. It is common for clays and other materials to be mixed to produce clay bodies suited to specific purposes.
Firing produces irreversible changes in the body. It is only after firing that the article or material is pottery.
In all cases, the object of firing is to permanently harden the wares and the firing regime must be appropriate to the materials used to make them.
The way that ceramics mature in the kiln is influenced not only by the peak temperature achieved but also by the duration of the period of firing. Thus, the maximum temperature within a kiln is often held constant for a period of time to soak the wares to produce the maturity required in the body of the wares.
P.S. Hmmm..."soak the wares" in the kiln.....sounds a lot like a lake of fire!
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Isaiah 64:8:
But now, O LORD, You are our Father; We are the clay, and You our potter; And all we are the work of Your hand.
Isaiah 45:9:
Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 03-31-2011 at 10:12 AM..
Excellent thoughts, you two. Thanks for giving me more food for thought about fire.
I find it interesting that the thing God is described as being 'A Consuming Fire' and One who dwells in light so bright that no man can approach is turned on its head by a lot of Christians to cause people to be terrified of the Creator. I guess it is because they are terrified of God, and from a natural perspective, who wouldn't be (God is DEADLY to the natural man). I think many never get beyond their carnal fear, which explains why not too many are in a hurry to die even though they say they can't wait to "get to heaven".
Excellent thoughts, you two. Thanks for giving me more food for thought about fire.
I find it interesting that the thing God is described as being 'A Consuming Fire' and One who dwells in light so bright that no man can approach is turned on its head by a lot of Christians to cause people to be terrified of the Creator. I guess it is because they are terrified of God, and from a natural perspective, who wouldn't be (God is DEADLY to the natural man). I think many never get beyond their carnal fear, which explains why not too many are in a hurry to die even though they say they can't wait to "get to heaven".
Hope to get some more input on this HOT TOPIC
:-)
Heartsong
BHFT quoted some beautiful stuff from Isaiah. We are truly the clay, not the Potter (even though our flesh wants us to believe ourselves the potters).
I also liked your wording above: God is deadly to the natural man. Amen! When we praise and thank the Lord, we are where we need to be! That's it!
In spite of all our theories and knowledge, we are still called to "walk humbly with our God."
Ok, back to the OP....
Blessings!
brian
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Thou art the Potter, I am the clay. Mold me and make me after Thy will, while I am waiting, yielded and still.
Read this from Wikipedia and think about all the aspects of this beautiful metaphor used in the Bible:
