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You're confusing physical death with spiritual death.
God has always required a blood sacrifice for the remission of sins. What came before Jesus was only temporary. Jesus was the perfect, spotless lamb (sinless). His redemptive work on the cross pays our sin debt (that we are unable to pay, due to our sin). Salvation from eternal death is a free gift, offered to anyone who will accept it.
Thank you for the link. The quote from Isaiah that "His thoughts are not our thoughts" makes me think that if what we think is not what He thinks, then we cannot know what He is thinking!
If Jesus is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world," then it seems clear to me that God's salvation was already in place before Adam was created. That implies that salvation was before the fall.
The living and active Word of God. Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here, but has risen.
The living and active Word of God says this (see below)?
Quote:
Jesus "purpose" was to show us the path (which he taught...but the majority ignore) to overcome our own sin/ignorance in this life.
Jesus died because ignorant and powerful men did not like his message...which took their spiritual control of the people away and gave it back to the people themselves.
No, it doesn't. It says:
Mark 10:45
"The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Thank you for the link. The quote from Isaiah that "His thoughts are not our thoughts" makes me think that if what we think is not what He thinks, then we cannot know what He is thinking!
If Jesus is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world," then it seems clear to me that God's salvation was already in place before Adam was created. That implies that salvation was before the fall.
Blessings,
brian
No, it means people come up with their own crazy ideas (this board is full of 'em), instead of just simply reading God's Word & finding out the truth!
1). Jesus Christ is sufficient, but, the law/OT was also necessary for OUR benefit, to teach us (mankind) the nature of sin and our own individual need for a Savior and Salvation and reonciliation with God. By actually coming, Jesus paid our sin debt with His own perfect life ... something we, or no man, could ever do for ourselves, since we would be trying to pay a debt with a debt!
2). God is Just ... and righteous and Holy and the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. --- Contrary to your statement, God does not 'condemn' all of mankind because of Adam's sin. Adam was only the vehicle through which sin entered the world.
But, all have sinned (on their own) and come short of the glory of God. Still, instead of 'blanket condemnation', God has offered Salvation and Eternal Life to all through Jesus Christ ... and it is not His will that any perish. However, as was the case with Adam and Eve, rebellious human hearts choose death, rather than simply believe/trust God.
People condemn themselves to eternal separation from God, by their refusal of the life He offers to all who are willing trust, love, obey God during this lifetime. People do not condemn themselves to hell by their sin, but, rather, by their rejection of Christ and Life! (Sinful actions are only the outward manifestation of sinful hearts, revealed for our benefit).
I have a different perspective.
I believe that since God created heaven and hell, he is also in those places, hence I wonder how you can separate yourself from God? He creates the good, and he creates the evil. He is in everything and anything. The earlier we see God in his true perspective and attribute all things to God, the better for us all.
Hi everyone,
With a bit of courage and hope, I'd like to hear your opinions on these thoughts:
1) If believing in Jesus Christ is sufficient for salvation, then why didn't God just say that back in the OT without ever actually sending Him?? He could have just wrote it on a piece of paper and avoid all the gospels, Paul's letters, etc, etc..
2) If God is just, then how can it be "just" for God to condemn ALL mankind because one person (Adam) ate an apple?!?!??
I have my own perspective, of course, but I'd like to hear from all of you!
Blessings!
brian
My 2 cents here.
1) I think we need to understand the true meaning of 'believe'. Believing in Christ means acceptance of his sacrifice for our sakes, practicing his words to the best of our abilities and generally having faith in His name. Are most of us real believers? Well, you can judge for yourself, but personally I doubt it. We are like the prodigal son and Mary Magdalene. What we need to do daily is to ask HIM for forgiveness.
The old testament were the days of darkness, where men were ruled by angels, not directly by God. This was because God severed the direct relationship after the scene at the garden of Eden. God is Holy, very Holy, so when he gives an instruction and Adam and Eve did not carry it out, the one on one teaching from God was lost. Nothing done by man since then brought that special relationship back, until Christ came to shed his blood. He needed to have that repaired and at the right time, his own time, his first begotten came to die as an atonement for our sins. by that atonement, we became reconciled to God again. That is why I tell Christian to be in spirit when they read the old testament , otherwise they completely loose the plot.
But God did tell Adam after he cried and begged for forgiveness that he will visit him and the signs of his coming will be Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh. These were fulfilled by gifts the three wise men presented to Jesus - although four of them started the trip. The fourth wise man met Christ when he was already hung on the tree.
The reason why God demands the belief in his first begotten is that he was the only one who freely agreed to shed his blood for mankind. No one in heaven wanted to do it, except Christ. Even God warned him about the depth of his experience but Christ insisted he wanted to go and save mankind. That is why he has been promoted - his new name has been raised above every other name. The Father in trying to reward him gave him a name above every other name in heaven and on earth which means the Father gave him his own name. No name is greater than the name of God, the Father. Now people get confused about the name Jesus, Christ etc. Jesus was a man, just like you and I. Like you and I, we house different spirits. The Spirit of Christ lived in that house, till the spirit departed to the Father and resurrected again. By giving his life for us, Jesus attained Christhood - in other words the Spirit nudged on the house to complete the planned program.
2
Remember that man 'disobeyed' HIM, so he commanded man out of his presence and out of the garden. Any human would have done far worse. He still let us live, but only just denied direct access. I think that was kind of him. And he remains a very just Father. That day of sin was the darkest day for humanity because we all started from Adam and Eve. Those two were the first humans who passed on their genes to other generations. The generational curse of sin (death) was on us all until Christ shed his blood. But make no mistake about the events that happened - they were all planned by HIM, to glorify Himself, which he did thousands of years later through Christ.
With a bit of courage and hope, I'd like to hear your opinions on these thoughts:
1) If believing in Jesus Christ is sufficient for salvation, then why didn't God just say that back in the OT without ever actually sending Him?? He could have just wrote it on a piece of paper and avoid all the gospels, Paul's letters, etc, etc..
2) If God is just, then how can it be "just" for God to condemn ALL mankind because one person (Adam) ate an apple?!?!??
I have my own perspective, of course, but I'd like to hear from all of you!
Blessings! brian
Adam was told by God to avoid eating the fruit of the tree of good and evil. Adam disobeyed God and lost trust. When Adam was confronted by God, Adam blamed the woman. His relationship with a Holy God was separated by his sin nature.
Many references to the coming of Christ are in the OT. The Jews today are still waiting for the Messiah mention in the OT.
God can do whatever He want to do. It is for us to be children of God. Remember all the miracles His prophets did? Remember all the miracles Jesus did? People still did not believe even after He sent His prophets and His Son to deliever His message of salvation.
He is our Father and we are His children. God wants our obedience and love, not doubt and questioning His love for us. We are not equal to God. All of us are sinners. God is not. He sent Christ to allow redemption.
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