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Christians agree the Bible is inspired. Do they believe it is unerring? Or do they believe it is mistranslated?
I believe that the original documents were without error, but that there is no 100% perfect translation in existence today. I'm not sure that "mistranslated" is really the best word to use. Here's what I mean... Take the word "thin." Look in a thesaurus for synonymns for "thin," and you'll come up with the following: skinny, slim, slender, bony, lean, emaciated, slight, lanky, svelte, trim, and willowy (among others). Someone translating a word meaning "thin" from a foreign language into English would have a great many words to choose from. In order to pick the best word, the translator would not only need to understand all of the connotations of each of his choices, he would need to understand which one would best fit into the context of the sentence in which the word was to be used. He would also need to understand how the meaning of the word may have changed over time, and, most importantly, he would need to know which English word the original author would probably have chosen had he been writing in English. I would be quite flattered if someone called me "slender" but offended if he called me "emaciated." Yet both words really do mean "thin."
Then, too, there is the problem of transcription. Imagine hand-copying even one of the books in the Bible and managing to do so without making one single solitary error. Imagine copying someone else's copy, and so on and so forth. The chances for error are immense.
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What an impossible positition we find ourselves in, in relation to our salvation, if we needed to have knowledge of the Greek language.
I disagree.
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Would God have neglected the preservation of His pure word? If so, He certainly could not hold us responsible. Has He left us without a Bible in which we could not place our trust?
Obviously, if some translations are "better" than others, somewhere along the line He did, in fact, allow human beings to do what human beings are so good at: making mistakes. Of course, He didn't just leave us with a Bible we couldn't trust -- He covered all of His bases. But we won't get into how.
1 Kings 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
2 Chron 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen
Both from the KJV. Which is correct?
Excellent example. Of course, Bible inerrantists will say that, while one of them would have to be wrong, it doesn't really matter since our salvation doesn't hinge on how many stalls Solomon had for his horses. And they would be right; it doesn't. But, your example does illustrate a very good point. Furthermore, it's not an isolated example, and while this one particular "contradition" may not be significant, how do we know for sure what other similar errors may exist and which of those may truly be important?
One other thought. John said that if everything Jesus had said and done throughout His three-year ministry, these things would more than fill all of the books in the world. When you stop and think how little we actually have, it makes you wonder what wasn't written down. It's hard for me to imagine that Jesus would have spent 98% of his time during His ministry just making small talk or teaching things that didn't really matter. The Bible we have today (regardless of the translation) is God's word and should be a guide for our lives. The fact that none of the translations are 100% perfect should not be a reason for us to simply throw the whole thing in the trash. On the other hand, it's really very naive for us to just put on our rose-colored glasses and pretend that the Bible is something it never even claims to be.
I'd like to add that it has also been HEAVILY EDITED and needs to be mined carefully through all the man made minutia that's been added.
No, that I is incorrect. A lot of doubters and bible deniers loved to make that claim, but when they found and studied the dead sea scrolls, they were amazed to discover that the ancient scrolls and the modern bibles were identical almost word for word. Isn't that amazing? God has protected the bible from changes
No, that I is incorrect. A lot of doubters and bible deniers loved to make that claim, but when they found and studied the dead sea scrolls, they were amazed to discover that the ancient scrolls and the modern bibles were identical almost word for word. Isn't that amazing? God has protected the bible from changes
Identical
almost word for word
Which is it?
And I do not believe the dead sea scrolls were written in English, so obviously someone translated them into English.
Why do you think we have so many different translations of bibles today?
the core reason is because one group disagrees with anothers group belief so a translation is made to fuller support their groups belief.
As one already said here, King James did this, and so to have many others.
I have showed in other threads where scriptures have been added to in order to support ones belief, that those so called scriptures are NOT in the oldest and best manuscipts.
Some translators realised this and left some of those so called scriptures out of their translations.
So the question come down to, which bible is inerrent?
Would it be the one that has the ADDED so called scriptures or would it be the ones that left those ADDED so called scriptures out of their bibles.
Either way you look at it, if you believe the ADDED so called scriptures are a part of Gods word then you must believe those bibles that did not put in those ADDED so called scriptures have taken away from the word of God and are therefore not inerrent.
And if you believe the bibles that do not have the ADDED so called scriptures is theword of God then you must believe the Gods word was ADDED to in the other bibles.
I can only for people who look to the bible as the WORD of God, as if the bible is that which is to save them.
The WORD of God is ALIVE and lives WITHIN you and it is that WORD and that WORD alone that will save you.
And I do not believe the dead sea scrolls were written in English, so obviously someone translated them into English.
They were practically identical with only minor differences in spelling,but nothing that would change the meaning of the passages. Who said anything about English? I was replying to a claim that the Bible has been EDITED / CHANGED, which turns out to be a FALSE CLAIM based on the dead sea scroll findings.
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I can only for people who look to the bible as the WORD of God
Moderator cut: orphaned
QUOTE: With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we now had manuscripts that predated the Masoretic Text by about one thousand years. Scholars were anxious to see how the Dead Sea documents would match up with the Masoretic Text. If a significant amount of differences were found, we could conclude that our Old Testament Text had not been well preserved. Critics, along with religious groups such as Muslims and Mormons, often make the claim that the present day Old Testament has been corrupted and is not well preserved. According to these religious groups, this would explain the contradictions between the Old Testament and their religious teachings.
After years of careful study, it has been concluded that the Dead Sea Scrolls give substantial confirmation that our Old Testament has been accurately preserved. The scrolls were found to be almost identical with the Masoretic text. Hebrew Scholar Millar Burrows writes, "It is a matter of wonder that through something like one thousand years the text underwent so little alteration. As I said in my first article on the scroll, ‘Herein lies its chief importance, supporting the fidelity of the Masoretic tradition.'"6
A significant comparison study was conducted with the Isaiah Scroll written around 100 B.C. that was found among the Dead Sea documents and the book of Isaiah found in the Masoretic text. After much research, scholars found that the two texts were practically identical. Most variants were minor spelling differences, and none affected the meaning of the text.
One of the most respected Old Testament scholars, the late Gleason Archer, examined the two Isaiah scrolls found in Cave 1 and wrote, "Even though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The five percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling."7
They were practically identical with only minor differences in spelling,but nothing that would change the meaning of the passages. Who said anything about English? I was replying to a claim that the Bible has been EDITED / CHANGED, which turns out to be a FALSE CLAIM based on the dead sea scroll findings.
Awwwww....Can I get you a Kleenex?
QUOTE: With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we now had manuscripts that predated the Masoretic Text by about one thousand years. Scholars were anxious to see how the Dead Sea documents would match up with the Masoretic Text. If a significant amount of differences were found, we could conclude that our Old Testament Text had not been well preserved. Critics, along with religious groups such as Muslims and Mormons, often make the claim that the present day Old Testament has been corrupted and is not well preserved. According to these religious groups, this would explain the contradictions between the Old Testament and their religious teachings.
After years of careful study, it has been concluded that the Dead Sea Scrolls give substantial confirmation that our Old Testament has been accurately preserved. The scrolls were found to be almost identical with the Masoretic text. Hebrew Scholar Millar Burrows writes, "It is a matter of wonder that through something like one thousand years the text underwent so little alteration. As I said in my first article on the scroll, ‘Herein lies its chief importance, supporting the fidelity of the Masoretic tradition.'"6
A significant comparison study was conducted with the Isaiah Scroll written around 100 B.C. that was found among the Dead Sea documents and the book of Isaiah found in the Masoretic text. After much research, scholars found that the two texts were practically identical. Most variants were minor spelling differences, and none affected the meaning of the text.
Finn, why not start a new thread on what you said here. That way, it won't get buried or overlooked as it might here among all the other posts. A new thread with your's being the first post would allow more people to see it. Just a thought.
Critics, along with religious groups such as Muslims and Mormons, often make the claim that the present day Old Testament has been corrupted and is not well preserved.
Right. Muslims, Mormons and critics -- critics meaning scholars of virtually every Christian denomination.
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According to these religious groups, this would explain the contradictions between the Old Testament and their religious teachings.
Excuse me, Finn, but what on earth are you talking about? If Mormons didn't value the text of the Old Testament as much as other Christians, we wouldn't focus on it anywhere near as much as we do.
Finn, why not start a new thread on what you said here. That way, it won't get buried or overlooked as it might here among all the other posts. A new thread with your's being the first post would allow more people to see it. Just a thought.
Yes a thread on that would be great as it would also provide evidence that the modern canon of the bible is questionable which can help us understand that some modern common interpretations may be inaccurate as well.
God never preserved interpretation, just so you know.
God never preserved interpretation, just so you know.
Excellent point, Phazelwood!
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But we won't get into how.
Authority
for people who look to the bible as the WORD of God, as if the bible is that which is to save them.
