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How can one speak of things of the spirit, when they don't even understand the material? Why don't you spend the rests of your lives alive? Oh wait, you fear death.
How can one speak of things of the spirit, when they don't even understand the material? Why don't you spend the rests of your lives alive? Oh wait, you fear death.
Well, I suppose we'll throw dice in order to decide who your post is addressed to. And you have no fear of death, right? Do you walk in front of moving locomotives and jump from cliffs? Good grief!
It's not that "you do not have to believe", which I have never said or claimed, as you so cunningly would like to accuse me of. Receiving the Gospel through faith is not the cause of our salvation. It never has been and never will be. Nor do we believe in-order to be saved. Nor is it something that God waits for us to do before regenerating us to life by His Spirit. Faith is the result of coming to life, it is not the cause of coming to life. Faith is what receives the knowledge of our salvation, it does not cause our salvation. Faith is a gift from God that comes out of the renewed heart and spirit, that born by the Holy Spirit.
Those are your additions to the Gospel that you posted, not mine. And you continually add things to the Gospel of which Paul states you stand accursed:
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Those verses are speaking to you Mike. Face it, you're an Arminian at heart that has never believed the Gospel.
Acts 16:30-31 put the lie to your claim.
You twist the truth like a corkscrew. You say that it is not that you don't have to believe, then you say you don't have to believe in order to be saved.
You just said it. That you do not have to believe in Christ in order to be saved.
The Scriptures state differently and you have been shown some of them.
And no, I am not an Arminian. The error of Arminianism is the belief that the believer can lose his salvation. Calvinism and Armininism are not the only viewpoints. Both of those viewpoints are in error.
Faith precedes salvation. Faith in Christ is the condition that God demands in order to be saved.
The issue is as simple as this. Believe in Christ or be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.
I am only willing to spend so much time and effort in presenting the truth to you. If you will not believe the truth, then bear the consequences of your unbelief. I am done with you.
It's not that "you do not have to believe", which I have never said or claimed, as you so cunningly would like to accuse me of. Receiving the Gospel through faith is not the cause of our salvation. It never has been and never will be. Nor do we believe in-order to be saved. Nor is it something that God waits for us to do before regenerating us to life by His Spirit. Faith is the result of coming to life, it is not the cause of coming to life. Faith is what receives the knowledge of our salvation, it does not cause our salvation. Faith is a gift from God that comes out of the renewed heart and spirit, that born by the Holy Spirit.
I have not left out anything concerning the Gospel. Joh 3:16 is a wonderful truth that Jesus proclaims, as is all scripture, including many of the things Turtle listed. However, those things are NOT the Gospel. Nor do they tell us what the Gospel is, and what saves us.
Nowhere in Joh 3:16 does it tell us that Christ died for our sins, nowhere does it tell us that Jesus was buried and resurrected for our justification. No where does it tell us that we are healed by His stripes.
Because you do not know or believe the Gospel you'll continue to say the things you do.
You are correct that we are not saved by works, but we are saved by faith. Faith alone in Jesus Christ. It's not enough to believe the "gospel" is that God saves us all. Because He doesn't. He saves those who believe that Jesus is their Savior and that he died for their sins. Not all believe. Not all are saved. Some subscribe to believing man has free will to choose God. Some surbscfibe to believing God chooses "the elect" who were predestined to be saved/choose God. Either way, man must choose for himself whether to accept or reject the Gospel. The Gospel is the offer, not the promise.
R.C. Sproul explains the Gospel best, so I'll let him:
"The good news of the Gospel is that Jesus lived a life of perfect righteousness, of perfect obedience to God, not for His own well being but for His people. He has done for me what I couldn’t possibly do for myself. But not only has He lived that life of perfect obedience, He offered Himself as a perfect sacrifice to satisfy the justice and the righteousness of*God."
"The Bible makes it clear that we are justified not by our works, not by our efforts, not by our deeds, but by faith – and by faith alone. The only way you can receive the benefit of Christ’s life and death is by putting your trust in Him – and in Him alone. You do that, you’re declared just by God, you’re adopted into His family, you’re forgiven of all of your sins, and you have begun your pilgrimage for*eternity."
"what are you paying for or being saved from then if your sins are forgiven?
Is it possible that WE are holding our sins against us and others' sins against them... Not god?"
Sins that have been forgiven are all past, in our lives. What you do NOW...are you already perfect? No, and neither am I. We aren't given "carte blanche" for every future sin, in salvation. We must, as I said, stop making excuses for our sins...remember, there exists a Spirit of Gluttony, and other things.
We must not deny, but admit any of our sins, and ask to be saved from our Compulsions....to make excuses, to overeat, oinking in pleasures, as we are told in bible that Spirit and Flesh war against each other. We must ask to be saved from our resentments, running our mouths too much, for we will give account for every word.
If we are "look at as" white as snow while still sinning, then WHY are we going to give account for ANYthing, if it's all totally forgotten?
I think many don't even understand what salvation is. It is not just being saved from eternal Hell. It is being saved from ourselves, in each moment of our lives, be it food, gossiping, being too idle/lazy etc. etc.
We, as Christians have faults that too many of us make excuses for, and support our wrongs in each other. No! that's what I am speaking out against.
And no, I am not an Arminian. The error of Arminianism is the belief that the believer can lose his salvation. Calvinism and Armininism are not the only viewpoints. Both of those viewpoints are in error.
Faith precedes salvation. Faith in Christ is the condition that God demands in order to be saved.
The issue is as simple as this. Believe in Christ or be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.
I am only willing to spend so much time and effort in presenting the truth to you. If you will not believe the truth, then bear the consequences of your unbelief. I am done with you.
Mike, there is no doubt in my mind that you fully believe what you believe in the way you believe it. That is simply the way it is. The same is true of those who see the gospel in a different light. God is at the center of everything that he created. Our views of who He is and what He looks like and what His is doing and how He is doing it are obviously varied according to our placement in His Sphere.
You twist the truth like a corkscrew. You say that it is not that you don't have to believe, then you say you don't have to believe in order to be saved.
You just said it. That you do not have to believe in Christ in order to be saved.
The Scriptures state differently and you have been shown some of them.
And no, I am not an Arminian. The error of Arminianism is the belief that the believer can lose his salvation. Calvinism and Armininism are not the only viewpoints. Both of those viewpoints are in error.
Faith precedes salvation. Faith in Christ is the condition that God demands in order to be saved.
The issue is as simple as this. Believe in Christ or be eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.
I am only willing to spend so much time and effort in presenting the truth to you. If you will not believe the truth, then bear the consequences of your unbelief. I am done with you.
What I said was that faith is not the cause of one's salvation nor is it something we do in-order to be (ie: get) saved. Faith is the result of being saved, whether you like it or not. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, the outcome of the new birth, not the cause of the new birth.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
You cannot have faith without the Spirit. Faith is a gift from God that comes to us through regeneration of the Spirit.
Do you actually read anything at all that I post, or do you simply not grasp what I'm saying and are eager to debate? I really have no time or desire to debate your theories about the bible. If you want to discuss the Gospel fine.
And yes, you are a 17th century Arminian, living in modern times. Not everything (cap and gown as such...lol), but most. Read what they believe, OK?
Mike, there is no doubt in my mind that you fully believe what you believe in the way you believe it. That is simply the way it is. The same is true of those who see the gospel in a different light. God is at the center of everything that he created. Our views of who He is and what He looks like and what His is doing and how He is doing it are obviously varied according to our placement in His Sphere.
Your views are wrong. Your views are in plain contradiction of what the word of God states clearly. Your views are based on your misconception that a loving God would not condemn anyone to hell. The reality is that He does. And it is based on His Justice. Not His love.
Mike, there is no doubt in my mind that you fully believe what you believe in the way you believe it. That is simply the way it is. The same is true of those who see the gospel in a different light. God is at the center of everything that he created. Our views of who He is and what He looks like and what His is doing and how He is doing it are obviously varied according to our placement in His Sphere.
Good luck with all that. As I said earlier in this thread, if I'm wrong it's of no importance since I was already saved (along with all of you Universalists) and didn't need to accept Jesus Christ as my Savior.
If Universalists are wrong, it's of imminent importance because the path to Heaven and Eternal Life will be much, much narrower than you believe.
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