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JN 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify You me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was."
The Father has to glorify Him. The glory that He had with the Father does not mean that He and the Father are co-equal. He has already told us that the Father is greater than He is and that He can do nothing of Himself. He is totally dependent on the Father.
Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us [b]in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [c]world. 3 [d]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and [e]upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
The invisible Supreme God is revealed in Jesus, who is the exact image and representation of the invisible God. An image is not the original.
Philippians 2
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given Him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
God bless.
He was already glorified while on the earth within the limitations of the body. His Spirit was equal to God and was God within that limitation. It was only the body that made Him less in the sense of being not omnipresence. He was even made less than the Angels in that He had sweat, blood and tears and could not be somewhere in an instant. The greater Glory came when He was Glorified without the earthly body back into the self of all that the Father is and is now omnipresent. JN 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify You Me with Your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.
Glory in the natural world means outward beauty and in the Spirit realm it means the Beauty of His Character.
JN 17:22 "And the Glory which you gave Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"
Of coarse it must be remembered that the Glory He manifest was always perfect and the Glory we manifest is not so perfect. Nevertheless the Holy Spirit is given so that we might show forth the Beauty of His Character more and more. Blessings to you.
Garya, He was still praying that the Father would glorify Him with the glory that He had with Him before the world was. He is praying to the Father and He was totally dependent on the Father in all things. The glory He gave to His disciples was given to Him by the Father, His God. He has a God and the Father has no God, would you agree with this?
One who is the Supreme God, has no God. He is above all.
John 20:17: Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, `I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'
Garya, He was still praying that the Father would glorify Him with the glory that He had with Him before the world was. He is praying to the Father and He was totally dependent on the Father in all things. The glory He gave to His disciples was given to Him by the Father, His God. He has a God and the Father has no God, would you agree with this?
One who is the Supreme God, has no God. He is above all.
John 20:17: Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, `I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'
God bless.
Wouldn't you agree Shanna that you are not even trying to understand the Kenosis and hypostatic union of Jesus Christ? Wouldn't you agree that you have totally ignored the fact that the submission of Jesus Christ with reference to a predetermined plan, in which He voluntarily became a member of the human race and refrained from the independent use of His deity, has no connection with the reality of His equality with the Father.
Answer me this Shanna. Who is the Almighty? And who is the one 'who is and who was and who is to come?' Do not the Scriptures state that the Father is Almighty? Do not the Scriptures also state that Jesus Christ is the Almighty? Do not the Scriptures say that both the Father and Jesus Christ are described as the one 'who is and who was and who is to come?'
It is Jesus Christ who is speaking in Revelation 1:8 Shanna. Let's see what He said about Himself. ''I am the Alpha and the Omega,'' says the Lord God (kurios Theos), ''who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.''
In Revelation 1:8 we see that Jesus Christ is the Lord God and that He is the Almighty.
In Revelation 1:8 Jesus says, ''I am the Alpha and the Omega'' - the First and the Last.
In Revelation 1:17 Jesus says ''Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18] the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.''
In Revelation 22:12, Jesus again refers to Himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
The Scriptures are clear Shanna that there is only One True God. Only God is Almighty. Both the Father and Jesus Christ are called Almighty - pantokratór
Both God the Father and Jesus Christ have unrestricted power - omnipotence.
God the Father did not give Jesus Christ His omnipotence. Jesus Christ has existed eternally and has always been Almighty - omnipotent. And since Jesus Christ is Almighty and eternal, the Father cannot be more Almighty or more eternal than Jesus Christ. They are co-equal and co-eternal. They are of the same essence or nature, as is the Holy Spirit.
John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' 2] He was in the beginning with God.
Jesus Christ - the Word was in the beginning with God which means that as long as God has existed, so has Jesus Christ who is Himself God. John 1:1-2 identifies Jesus Christ as God but a different Person than the Father.
Excerpt from Robertsons Word Pictures:
In the beginning (en arch). Arch is definite, though anarthrous like our at home, in town, and the similar Hebrew be re****h in Genesis 1:1 . But Westcott notes that here John carries our thoughts beyond the beginning of creation in time to eternity. There is no argument here to prove the existence of God any more than in Genesis. It is simply assumed. Either God exists and is the Creator of the universe as scientists like Eddington and Jeans assume or matter is eternal or it has come out of nothing. Was (hn). Three times in this sentence John uses this imperfect of eimi to be which conveys no idea of origin for God or for the Logos, simply continuous existence. John 1:1 - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, Bible Commentary
There is no such thing as a Supreme God in contradistinction to a lesser god. There is but One God, and that is the triune God who is God the Father, Jesus Christ who is God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the true God.
Wouldn't you agree Shanna that you are not even trying to understand the Kenosis and hypostatic union of Jesus Christ? Wouldn't you agree that you have totally ignored the fact that the submission of Jesus Christ with reference to a predetermined plan, in which He voluntarily became a member of the human race and refrained from the independent use of His deity, has no connection with the reality of His equality with the Father.
Hi Mike, there is nothing to understand except what is revealed in the scriptures. Terms like the Trinity, the Kenosis and hypostatic union of Jesus Christ, are not found in the scriptures and neither is the doctrine. Why should I try to go beyond what Jesus has told us? It's very simple to me. Here is the relationship that matters as far as us understanding who the God is that Jesus came to reveal to us.
God the Father> Jesus the Son> the children, believers, the creation
Jesus has clearly explained the relationship to us:
for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of My own accord,
but He sent Me." [ John 8:42]
"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" [John 7:16]
"And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of
Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape. [John 5:37]
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
"And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
*eternal=aionios
It is not hard to follow to me. Jesus existed in the form of God and was the exact image or representation of the nature of the invisible God. The fullness of God dwelled in Him. They were one in purpose and He did what was pleasing to the Father. He was all about doing His Father's will. He came to reveal the Supreme God, the invisible God to us, who is His Father. He did not voluntarily put aside Absolute Deity to come to earth as a man because He was not Absolute Deity. He was like the Absolute Deity and represents Him, reveals Him, acts on His behalf, acts like He is Absolute Deity, has all authority in heaven and on earth that was given to Him by the ABsolute Deity. But who is His Absolute Deity? His Father is and His Father is also our Absolute Deity.
Quote:
Answer me this Shanna. Who is the Almighty? And who is the one 'who is and who was and who is to come?' Do not the Scriptures state that the Father is Almighty? Do not the Scriptures also state that Jesus Christ is the Almighty? Do not the Scriptures say that both the Father and Jesus Christ are described as the one 'who is and who was and who is to come?'
It is Jesus Christ who is speaking in Revelation 1:8 Shanna. Let's see what He said about Himself. ''I am the Alpha and the Omega,'' says the Lord God (kurios Theos), ''who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.''
In Revelation 1:8 we see that Jesus Christ is the Lord God and that He is the Almighty.
In Revelation 1:8 Jesus says, ''I am the Alpha and the Omega'' - the First and the Last.
In Revelation 1:17 Jesus says ''Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18] the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.''
In Revelation 22:12, Jesus again refers to Himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
The Scriptures are clear Shanna that there is only One True God. Only God is Almighty. Both the Father and Jesus Christ are called Almighty - pantokratór
Both God the Father and Jesus Christ have unrestricted power - omnipotence.
As has been shared , The Almighty is the Father, the invisible God, the source of all. Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of God, the Almighty, the invisible God. He was sent by the Almighty, Supreme, Absolute God, invisible God to reveal Him to us. He acts on His behalf. He is His agent, His representative. He speaks for Him as He is the word of God. He is not the same as the Almighty although He speaks for Him and represents Him. He does not glorify Himself but only seeks to glorify His Father, the Almighty.
Hebrews 1: 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [c]world. 3 [d]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and [e]upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Philippians 2: 1Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any [a]affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete [b]by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3 Do nothing [c]from [d]selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude [e]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [f]grasped, 7 but [g]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [h]on a cross.
The invisible Supreme God is revealed in Jesus, who is the exact image and representation of the invisible God. An image is not the original.
One who is fully God, has no God. Even with all that the Father has given Him and even though He existed in the form of God, Jesus does have a God, and has said that all that He has was given to Him, by the Father. He has also said that the Father is greater than He is. The Absolute, Supreme God has no God. No one is above Him and He is greater than the Son, through Him He made all things.
.
Quote:
God the Father did not give Jesus Christ His omnipotence. Jesus Christ has existed eternally and has always been Almighty - omnipotent. And since Jesus Christ is Almighty and eternal, the Father cannot be more Almighty or more eternal than Jesus Christ. They are co-equal and co-eternal. They are of the same essence or nature, as is the Holy Spirit.
Again, Jesus has said:
for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of My own accord,
but He sent Me." [ John 8:42]
"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" [John 7:16]
"And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of
Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape. [John 5:37]
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
"And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]
John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
*eternal=aionios
Quote:
John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' 2] He was in the beginning with God.
Quote:
Jesus Christ - the Word was in the beginning with God which means that as long as God has existed, so has Jesus Christ who is Himself God. John 1:1-2 identifies Jesus Christ as God but a different Person than the Father.
John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (NAS)
In the beginning was (the) Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. He was in the beginning with God. All things through Him came into being, and without him came into being not even one (thing) that has come into being." Interlinear Greek English NT
1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word.
2 This was in the beginning toward God.
3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being" (Concordant Literal)
Many believers and I am one of them, believe that there are variances in this translation. The word was with God and God was the word. This means that the word, what God wanted to reveal, was who He was. This is explained in John 1: 18 when the scriptures say that Jesus has explained God. Jesus came to tell us who God is, and so this is the message - who the One and Only True God is. Jesus always pointed to the One and Only True God and came to reveal Him, so this goes along with the understanding that the message was - God.
Quote:
There is no such thing as a Supreme God in contradistinction to a lesser god. There is but One God, and that is the triune God who is God the Father, Jesus Christ who is God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the true God.
[/quote]
Jesus has a God and this is the Supreme God, His Father, the Almighty. One who is the Almighty (more than an image or representation) does not have a God.
Jesus has told us who the Only True God is. It is not about a Trinity. It is about worshipping the One and Only True God and Jesus Christ, His Son, whom He sent. The Son reflects the Father, came to show us the Father, is the exact image of the Father, is in the form of God, and directs us to the Father. Jesus is the channel and the Father is the source of all.
1 Cor. 8:4
"4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that [b]there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him..." (NAS)
4Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one; 5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many -- 6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him; (Young's Literal)
John 10:36
34Jesus answered them, `Is it not having been written in your law: I said, ye are gods?
[b][b]35if them he did call gods unto whom the word of God came, (and the Writing is not able to be broken,) 36of him whom the Father did sanctify, and send to the world, do ye say -- Thou speakest evil, because I said, Son of God I am?
It looks like we will have to agree to disagree. I hope that you do not condemn another believer or say that they are not a believer because of our different beliefs/understanding on this. But if you do, so be it. Take care and God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-04-2012 at 12:05 AM..
Wouldn't you agree Shanna that you are not even trying to understand the Kenosis and hypostatic union of Jesus Christ? Wouldn't you agree that you have totally ignored the fact that the submission of Jesus Christ with reference to a predetermined plan, in which He voluntarily became a member of the human race and refrained from the independent use of His deity, has no connection with the reality of His equality with the Father.
Answer me this Shanna. Who is the Almighty? And who is the one 'who is and who was and who is to come?' Do not the Scriptures state that the Father is Almighty? Do not the Scriptures also state that Jesus Christ is the Almighty? Do not the Scriptures say that both the Father and Jesus Christ are described as the one 'who is and who was and who is to come?'
It is Jesus Christ who is speaking in Revelation 1:8 Shanna. Let's see what He said about Himself. ''I am the Alpha and the Omega,'' says the Lord God (kurios Theos), ''who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.''
In Revelation 1:8 we see that Jesus Christ is the Lord God and that He is the Almighty.
In Revelation 1:8 Jesus says, ''I am the Alpha and the Omega'' - the First and the Last.
In Revelation 1:17 Jesus says ''Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18] the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.''
In Revelation 22:12, Jesus again refers to Himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
The Scriptures are clear Shanna that there is only One True God. Only God is Almighty. Both the Father and Jesus Christ are called Almighty - pantokratór
Both God the Father and Jesus Christ have unrestricted power - omnipotence.
God the Father did not give Jesus Christ His omnipotence. Jesus Christ has existed eternally and has always been Almighty - omnipotent. And since Jesus Christ is Almighty and eternal, the Father cannot be more Almighty or more eternal than Jesus Christ. They are co-equal and co-eternal. They are of the same essence or nature, as is the Holy Spirit.
John 1:1 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' 2] He was in the beginning with God.
Jesus Christ - the Word was in the beginning with God which means that as long as God has existed, so has Jesus Christ who is Himself God. John 1:1-2 identifies Jesus Christ as God but a different Person than the Father.
Excerpt from Robertsons Word Pictures:
In the beginning (en arch). Arch is definite, though anarthrous like our at home, in town, and the similar Hebrew be re****h in Genesis 1:1 . But Westcott notes that here John carries our thoughts beyond the beginning of creation in time to eternity. There is no argument here to prove the existence of God any more than in Genesis. It is simply assumed. Either God exists and is the Creator of the universe as scientists like Eddington and Jeans assume or matter is eternal or it has come out of nothing. Was (hn). Three times in this sentence John uses this imperfect of eimi to be which conveys no idea of origin for God or for the Logos, simply continuous existence. John 1:1 - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, Bible Commentary
There is no such thing as a Supreme God in contradistinction to a lesser god. There is but One God, and that is the triune God who is God the Father, Jesus Christ who is God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the true God.
Amen... Mike !
God is faithful and will continue in these last days... revealing HIMSELF to those who BELIEVE that there is only ONE GOD.... who is GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT.... amen !!
Jude 1:20-21;24-25
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling,
And to present you faultless
Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
25 To God our Savior,
Who alone is wise,
Be glory and majesty,
Dominion and power,
Both now and forever.
Amen.
Trinitarians the 'bible' defines the "one God" as "the Father" (1 Co. 8:4-6, Isaiah etc.). So, if the Father = the one 'god', then no room for Son or 'holy spirit' to also be 'god' if 'god' is one and there's no other.
Let people not be deceived, some people teach that you cannot be saved unless you embrace the doctrine of the trinity. To them believing in the God and Jesus Christ spoken of in the scriptures is not enough, you have to agree to the doctrinal attempt to describe Gods nature as well. None of those assertions can be found in scripture.
There is nothing really wrong with the trinity doctrine as an attempt to understand the nature of the oneness of God, but there is nothing in scripture that makes believing this attempt required for salvation. Evidence of that is that none of the scriptures you use say anything about a triune God.
Not believing entirely in the trinity as most people teach has nothing to do with a rejection of God or Jesus Christ told about in the holy bible.
Ti 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1Jn 4:14 . And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.
If Jesus is God, then why did He say the Father was greater than He?
"You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I,'" (John 14:28).
Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position. He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . ." (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."
Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people.
A comparison can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. But, he is no different in nature and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, being human, and they work together by love.
So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God 5so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).
Phil. 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"
Gal. 4:4-5, "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."
Heb. 2:9, "But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone."
Php 2:5 For think this within you, which mind was also in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who subsisting in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
Php 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, having become in the likeness of men
Php 2:8 and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, having become obedient until death, even the death of a cross.
G3444
μορφή
morphē
mor-fay'
Perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts); shape; figuratively nature: - form.
There is no such thing as a Supreme God in contradistinction to a lesser god. There is but One God, and that is the triune God who is God the Father, Jesus Christ who is God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the true God.
Why then does the Son say that He has a God, if He is the True God and why does the Son say:
"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" [John 7:16]
If He is the true God, then the teaching would have been His teaching.
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
He would not have said this. He would have accepted what the person called Him, if He was the True God.
John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
If He is the True God, He would have all of the glory and He would not have said this.
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
He makes a distinction between the Only True God and Himself.
*eternal=aionios
If He was the Absolute True God, He would not be in the form of God and would not think it robbery to be equal to Him or He would not regard equality with God a thing not to be grasped, because He would already be the Absolute True God. This shows me right here again that He is not the Supreme, Absolute, True God. He came to reveal the True God to us. This is how the True God reveals Himself to us, in Jesus, His Son, the only mediator between Himself and mankind.
1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
*mediator=mesites=one who mediates between parties, one who unites parties
He is unique in His relationship to God and us, His position, His purpose, His role in the purpose of God.
Colossians 1:
For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the [k]knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, [l]to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and [m]increasing in the [n]knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to [o]His glorious might, [p]for the attaining of all steadfastness and [q]patience; joyously 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us [r]to share in the inheritance of the [s]saints in Light.
13 [t]For He rescued us from the [u]domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of [v]His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 [w]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For [x]by (through) Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He [y]is before all things, and in Him all things [z]hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For [aa]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [ab]fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in [ac]heaven.
Philippians 9...God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Himthe name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-04-2012 at 06:29 AM..
Why then does the Son say that He has a God, if He is the True God and why does the Son say:
"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me" [John 7:16]
If He is the true God, then the teaching would have been His teaching.
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." [Mr 10:18]
He would not have said this. He would have accepted what the person called Him, if He was the True God.
John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
If He is the True God, He would have all of the glory and He would not have said this.
John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
He makes a distinction between the Only True God and Himself.
*eternal=aionios
If He was the Absolute True God, He would not be in the form of God and would not think it robbery to be equal to Him or He would not regard equality with God a thing not to be grasped, because He would already be the Absolute True God. This shows me right here again that He is not the Supreme, Absolute, True God. He came to reveal the True God to us. This is how the True God reveals Himself to us, in Jesus, His Son, the only mediator between Himself and mankind. God bless.
[quote=ShanaBrown;22842163]Why then does the Son say that He has a God, if He is the True God
Because the trinity by nature is relational. "The Lord said to My Lord." How? By the Holy Spirit who joins them as one in perfect will. God is Love, and therefore not unilateral in relation but relational as distinct persons yet one in will and spiritual nature. It is impossible for it to be any other way, otherwise love is not love. Jesus is modeling for us the relationship that exists within the trinity so that in Him after redemption we can be union with God as He was.
He did not have to grasp/reach for equality to have equality with God because He was already equal in spiritual nature by the Holy Spirit as in having Divine love, joy mercy, truth, ability to do miracles, etc.
JN 3:34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him."
Last edited by garya123; 02-04-2012 at 07:13 AM..
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The Son reflects the Father, came to show us the Father, is the exact image of the Father, is in the form of God, and directs us to the Father. Jesus is the channel and the Father is the source of all. 