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Does the LAW of the Old Testament call for the stoning of adulterers? Why then did Jesus literally run off the Pharisees who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery? They were 100% correct in understanding how the "holy" LAW was to be applied. But with few words, Jesus showed them they were wrong in their assessment of the LAW. It shouldn't be used as it was clearly written. The person who was the object of their scorn and derision was treated with kindness and mercy.
Now the favorite verse of fundamentalists out of that story is Jesus admonition to "Go and sin no more."
But I speculate what if she was caught in adultery again just a week later. If dragged before Jesus would He have said, "Here, let me help you gather the stones. After all it IS written in the Torah?"
Or would He have replied to them as He did His disciple (Peter, I believe), when asked how many times should one forgive his brother who had sinned against him (seven times? Peter asked). "I say not seven times but seventy time seven," Jesus replied.
Jesus' thinking completely repudiated the LAW as written in the OT.
It is also why He could state succinctly that the entire LAW and prophets could be summed up with two commandments---Love The Lord thy God with all your heart and soul, and your neighbor as yourself. That was and is completely different from what the majority of people claiming His name want to do. They want to select that verse in Leviticus and add it as a third Great Commandment, or add some of Paul's wording to make a forth or fifth commandment.
In other words, they try to reinstate the judgmental OT so that we once again are keeping a list of who is naughty and who is nice rather than do the one thing Christ wanted all of us to do--look at our own hearts. Because if we do the right job of introspection we find that we are on a level playing field with Adolf Hitler. We think we are gods to pass judgment on others.
God is the judge. The Holy Spirit convicts. The job of the Christian in no way involves informing anyone else what is sin or what is not. Our job is to love so clearly and convincingly that others will want to know why.
So after the woman caught in adultery was forgiven did she then have 489 more times to be forgiven before punishment was to be meted out [ (70 * 7)-1]? Or did Jesus mean each time the slate was wiped clean? Because that is the kind of mercy and forgiveness that allows us freedom to be the spiritually weak creatures Jesus sees us as. It isn't a license to sin, but it is certainly anticipation of our failure.
How will God judge us in the end? I don't know for sure. But in Jesus He is quite clear that we aren't the ones to be concerned about doing the judgment or following the LAW. Instead we should see ourselves in the circle with all the accusers about us picking up the stones, needing mercy, hoping for deliverance, praying that just one person in that outer ring will not look at the LAW, but will instead say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Sadly the vast majority of Christians today don't see themselves in the middle of the circle. Worse yet, they don't even see themselves in the outer ring tossing stones as if they had no sin.
Does the LAW of the Old Testament call for the stoning of adulterers? Why then did Jesus literally run off the Pharisees who wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery? They were 100% correct in understanding how the "holy" LAW was to be applied. But with few words, Jesus showed them they were wrong in their assessment of the LAW. It shouldn't be used as it was clearly written. The person who was the object of their scorn and derision was treated with kindness and mercy.
Now the favorite verse of fundamentalists out of that story is Jesus admonition to "Go and sin no more."
But I speculate what if she was caught in adultery again just a week later. If dragged before Jesus would He have said, "Here, let me help you gather the stones. After all it IS written in the Torah?"
Or would He have replied to them as He did His disciple (Peter, I believe), when asked how many times should one forgive his brother who had sinned against him (seven times? Peter asked). "I say not seven times but seventy time seven," Jesus replied.
Jesus' thinking completely repudiated the LAW as written in the OT.
It is also why He could state succinctly that the entire LAW and prophets could be summed up with two commandments---Love The Lord thy God with all your heart and soul, and your neighbor as yourself. That was and is completely different from what the majority of people claiming His name want to do. They want to select that verse in Leviticus and add it as a third Great Commandment, or add some of Paul's wording to make a forth or fifth commandment.
In other words, they try to reinstate the judgmental OT so that we once again are keeping a list of who is naughty and who is nice rather than do the one thing Christ wanted all of us to do--look at our own hearts. Because if we do the right job of introspection we find that we are on a level playing field with Adolf Hitler. We think we are gods to pass judgment on others.
God is the judge. The Holy Spirit convicts. The job of the Christian in no way involves informing anyone else what is sin or what is not. Our job is to love so clearly and convincingly that others will want to know why.
So after the woman caught in adultery was forgiven did she then have 489 more times to be forgiven before punishment was to be meted out [ (70 * 7)-1]? Or did Jesus mean each time the slate was wiped clean? Because that is the kind of mercy and forgiveness that allows us freedom to be the spiritually weak creatures Jesus sees us as. It isn't a license to sin, but it is certainly anticipation of our failure.
How will God judge us in the end? I don't know for sure. But in Jesus He is quite clear that we aren't the ones to be concerned about doing the judgment or following the LAW. Instead we should see ourselves in the circle with all the accusers about us picking up the stones, needing mercy, hoping for deliverance, praying that just one person in that outer ring will not look at the LAW, but will instead say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Sadly the vast majority of Christians today don't see themselves in the middle of the circle. Worse yet, they don't even see themselves in the outer ring tossing stones as if they had no sin.
Your post seems to discuss how people misunderstood and misapplied the Law. I asked when did God's Written Law change?
Your post seems to discuss how people misunderstood and misapplied the Law. I asked when did God's Written Law change?
Does or does not Leviticus 20:10 and Deuteronomy 22:22 call for death by stoning of a man or woman caught in adultery?
Is it not a different take on that LAW if we follow Jesus' direction instead. It is not a LAW that was misunderstood by people. It is as perfectly clear as the message from Jesus is different in the gospel of John.
His message about the adulterers fits perfectly into His summarization of the LAW. The actual LAW regarding adulterers does not fit into that summarization.
In my quest for understanding I have followed the thread about same sex marriage being an abomination; my question is for those opposing it and/or homosexuality itself what do you want then? Obviously no western government will pass a law making it a sin and sentencing those found guilty to an eternity of hell. Do you want it so that you can verbally oppose it without no one being able to call you a bigot or have the death penalty. Both of these are as far to the edge as I could think of but really what do you want your society or government to do? Saying you want neither to do anything would also be an interesting answer.
I am not interested in your posting quotes from the Bible as that would not answer my question and would just be a repeat of the other thread. For those who support same sex equality there is no real reason to post.
This is not trying to troll , just that after reading all that other thread many of the posts several times I still do not know what it is you actually expect to happen or want to happen.
Thanks
Long story short, marriage between a man and a woman is healthy for society. This is partly why there is benefits for married couples.
In other words, it is unhealthy for society for children to be raised in an environment that is outside a Husband and a Wife married til death do them part.
Yes the constitution allows for legislating morality. All laws are legislating morality. The question is who's morality ideology is one implementing?
Laws are there generally to stop one harming another. So the issue is not eternal damnation, but a societal health and longevity with future generations.
Ultimately if we all followed God's ways we would benefit and have a strong society, as He is our creator.
But we aren't doing that are we?
So we are witnessing the collapse of this nation. Good morality is the backbone of a nation. It is why Egypt fell, babylon fell, rome, etc... < enter your empire run by sinful Mankind...
Does or does not Leviticus 20:10 and Deuteronomy 22:22 call for death by stoning of a man or woman caught in adultery?
Is it not a different take on that LAW if we follow Jesus' direction instead. It is not a LAW that was misunderstood by people. It is as perfectly clear as the message from Jesus is different in the gospel of John.
His message about the adulterers fits perfectly into His summarization of the LAW. The actual LAW regarding adulterers does not fit into that summarization.
So why do you think Jesus lied then, since you claim he did? Remember Jesus said he did not come to end or change the law one bit. Explain how this works if he changed it and said he was not changing it.
So why do you think Jesus lied then, since you claim he did? Remember Jesus said he did not come to end or change the law one bit. Explain how this works if he changed it and said he was not changing it.
You are obsessed with the bible and equate it with being the Son of God. Jesus was obsessed with showing us how God wants us to live.
No matter how you slice the pie, Jesus did NOT follow the LAW that DEMANDED the adulteress be put to death. He changed it.
Likewise, bible worshippers see the LAW in Leviticus concerning homosexuals as sacrosanct. But it doesn't fit it with the vision of Jesus on how to treat people.
He CHANGED the viewpoint.
Only if you still follow the LAW, do you see homosexuals under judgment for what they were born to be. If you have found Christ as your Savior, homosexuality nor murder nor rape nor adultery of someone else is no longer in your spiritual eyesight. Only your OWN SIN is before you. And like the woman in the circle, you are praying that the homosexual or anyone else in the outer ring will stand up and say, "Let he without sin cast the first stone."
It's called being "born again." You look at people differently because you yourself have been rescued from the mob.
Two traveling angels stopped to spend the night in the home of a
wealthy family.
The family was rude and refused to let the angels stay in the
mansion's guest room.
Instead the angels were given a small space in the cold basement.
As they made their bed on the hard floor, the older angel saw a hole in
the wall and repaired it.
When the younger angel asked why, the older angel replied,
"Things aren't always what they seem"
The next night the pair came to rest at the house of a very poor, but
very hospitable farmer and his wife.
After sharing what little food they had the couple let the angels
sleep in their bed where they could have a good night's rest.
When the sun came up the next morning the angels found the farmer and
his wife in tears.
Their only cow, whose milk had been their sole income, lay dead in the
field.
The younger angel was infuriated and asked the older angel how could
you have let this happen? The first man had everything, yet you helped
him, she accused.
The second family had little but was willing to share everything, and
you let the cow die..
"Things aren't always what they seem," the older angel replied.
"When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I noticed there was
gold stored in that hole in the wall.
Since the owner was so obsessed with greed and unwilling to share his
good fortune, I sealed the wall so he wouldn't find it."
"Then last night as we slept in the farmers bed, the angel of death
came for his wife I gave him the cow instead.
Things aren't always what they seem."
Sometimes that is exactly what happens when things don't turn out the
way they should. If you have faith, you just need to trust that every
out come is always to your advantage. You just might not know it until
some time later...
Some people
come into our lives
and quickly go..
Some people
become friends
and stay awhile...
leaving beautiful
footprints on our
hearts...
and we are
never
quite the same
because we have
made a good
friend!!
Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow a mystery.
Today is a gift.
That's why it's called the present!
I think this is special...live and savor every
moment... This is not a dress rehearsal!
Things aren't always as they seem. The homosexual that one states is going to hell may be an angel from God come to test your willingness to be God's servant.
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