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I'll have to go with what Katie said in post #44. Sad.
Exactly--I will go with Jesus--you go with Katie---not a very wise choice.
I have a suggestion--out of a heartfelt desire try to listen to Jesus and pray to his Father like he taught, and ask him( Father) to show you truth. He will if truth is really your hearts desire.
I'll have to go with what Katie said in post #44. Sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47
Exactly--I will go with Jesus--you go with Katie---not a very wise choice.
I have a suggestion--out of a heartfelt desire try to listen to Jesus and pray to his Father like he taught, and ask him( Father) to show you truth. He will if truth is really your hearts desire.
Post #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl
KJW47 has been told this repeatedly. He refuses to look at historical facts. Like all loyal JW's, he cannot go against the Governing Body for fear of disfellowship and shunning. It is easier for some JW's to keep repeating this lie than to get the boot.
There is little point in any further discussion with you as you refuse even to try to listen objectively.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-21-2015 at 06:44 PM..
In any 'group' there is likely to be a range of beliefs. Yes, salvation is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus, and not by works.
However, the topic, and the reason I posted this thread was with regard to Dr. Brown's defense of the deity of Jesus and the Tri-unity of God. Any discussion concerning the Mosaic law is off topic. Please keep any comments restricted to Dr. Brown's comments on Christ's deity and the Tri-unity of God.
I have registered at the recommendation of my pastor. I did so because I cannot believe (interesting word) you guys are spending so much time hashing, thrashing, trashing and rehashing in the age-old yearning for validation.
As a believer now in mid-life, I wonder if what we're reading is just men and their motives; nothing divinely inspired.
In any 'group' there is likely to be a range of beliefs. Yes, salvation is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus, and not by works.
However, the topic, and the reason I posted this thread was with regard to Dr. Brown's defense of the deity of Jesus and the Tri-unity of God. Any discussion concerning the Mosaic law is off topic. Please keep any comments restricted to Dr. Brown's comments on Christ's deity and the Tri-unity of God.
Yea, well let's try a Jewish Rabbi...Of course a Messianic Jew will tout it...
KJW47 has been told this repeatedly. He refuses to look at historical facts. Like all loyal JW's, he cannot go against the Governing Body for fear of disfellowship and shunning. It is easier for some JW's to keep repeating this lie than to get the boot.
On the contrary. In Dr. Dan Wallace's book, Greek Grammar beyond the basics, on pp. 266-269 he addresses John 1:1 and whether it should be regarded as an indefinite, a definite, or a qualitative noun. Citing the weakness of the view that it should be regarded as either indefinite, or definite as some who misunderstand Colwell's rule do, Dr. Wallace then states that the most likely candidate for Θεὸς (Theos) is qualitative. This means that the Λόγος (Logos-Word) was not only with Θεόν (Theon) with reference to the Father, but that the Word was Himself Θεὸς (Theos-God). Not some created being with godlike powers.
As a qualitative noun, Theos means that the Word has the same qualities, the same essence as the Father - Theon. The Word is just as much God as the Father is.
Dr. Wallace states that before 1933 New Testament commentators viewed Θεὸς as qualitative and cites Robertson, Lange, Chmnitz, and Alford, as well as Luther who said, ''the Word was God' is against Arius; 'the Word was with God' against Sabellius.''
Regarding the fact that in John 1:1c Θεὸς is qualitative rather than definite, this stresses the fact that while Christ is not the person of the Father, their essence is identical. Dr. Wallace states, 'The idea of a qualitative Θεὸς here is that the Word had all the attributes and qualities that ''the God'' (of 1:1b) had. In other words, he shared the essence of the Father, though they differed in person. The construction the evangelist chose to express this idea was the most concise way he could have stated that the Word was God and yet was distinct from the Father.'
You can claim that the Jehovah's Witnesses are God's true teachers and that everyone who doesn't agree with them are false teachers and liars, but even in the English John 1:1 is clear. The Word was with God and the Word was God. Jesus Christ is eternal and infinite God. I know you will continue to disagree, and so I will leave it at that.
What else would a trinity follower say. Jesus and his real teachers in the nt contradict him and a trinity--that's proof.
the word was god--small g-- otherwise this has to be the trinity teaching in the 2nd line--( if the word was God)God was with God with another God over there.---(rev 3:12---- God has a God with another God over there--- Gods word is clear--one God.
And Jesus said that he has a G-d and that G-d is the same as everyone else's...People seem to miss that...
Dr. Michael L. Brown is a Messianic Jew, a Jewish believer in Christ. He believes in the deity of Jesus
There is no such thing as a "Jewish believer in Christ." The group calling themselves "Messianic Jews" is an evangelical Christian outreach activity that is entirely funded by evangelical Christians.
It is not recognized by ANY stream of Judaism world wide.
It is also condemned by mainstream Christian leadership for its deceptive practices.
This discussion rightly belongs on the Christianity forum, because "Messianics" are Christians. NOT JEWISH.
Michael has been a blessing to my Wife and I and we generally catch him on Sid Roth. He joins Jonathan Cahn, Sid, Rosenberg, Jonathan Bernis and other great Messanics finally breaking the mold in believing Jesus is messiah and combining Torah with the NT. These special messanics are the predecessors to the 12 tribes of Israel (144,000) who becomes disciples of Jesus and teaming up with gentile believers . Very exciting times ahead!
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