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The vast majority of Protestant preachers teach that every believer in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and their Savior, automatically receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Billy Graham, in his daily syndicated newspaper clipping said many years ago in an answer to a woman who had some doubt of her standing before God told her that if she had ever trusted in Jesus as her Lord and Savior she was eternally saved and there was nothing she could do to lose her salvation.
In recent days Dr. David Jeremiah said essentially the same in one of his daily radio programs.
But is this a true statement? I know that Jesus said in John 6:[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. See also the words of Christ in John 10:[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
So no man can pluck a believer out of the hand of Jesus or His Father. But can a believer walk away from his own salvation?
Jesus said in His parable about the sower in Luke 8:[13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
[14] And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
[15] But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
So it looks like He is saying that only those who bring forth fruits are the ones who are eternally saved.
Peter and the other Apostles said in Acts 5:32 That God gives the gift of the Holy Ghost to THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.
And Jesus said in Luke 8:[21] And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
See also Matt. 7:[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
SO IT APPEARS THAT ONLY THOSE WHO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD AND DO IT ARE, WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
Last edited by Robert M Prince; 04-12-2015 at 06:20 AM..
The vast majority of Protestant preachers teach that every believer in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and their Savior, automatically receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Billy Graham, in his daily syndicated newspaper clipping said many years ago in an answer to a woman who had some doubt of her standing before God told her that if she had ever trusted in Jesus as her Lord and Savior she was eternally saved and there was nothing she could do to lose her salvation.
In recent days Dr. David Jeremiah said essentially the same in one of his daily radio programs.
But is this a true statement? I know that Jesus said in John 6:[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. See also the words of Christ in John 10:[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
So no man can pluck a believer out of the hand of Jesus or His Father. But can a believer walk away from his own salvation?
Jesus said in His parable about the sower in Luke 8:[13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
[14] And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
[15] But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
So it looks like He is saying that only those who bring forth fruits are the ones who are eternally saved.
Peter and the other Apostles said in Acts 5:32 That God gives the gift of the Holy Ghost to THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.
And Jesus said in Luke 8:[21] And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
See also Matt. 7:[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
SO IT APPEARS THAT ONLY THOSE WHO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD AND DO IT ARE, WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
So, we are saved by WORKS? And the disciples, once again are wrong>?
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- Ephesians 2:8
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
TITUS 3:3-7
Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 04-12-2015 at 06:44 AM..
So, we are saved by WORKS? And the disciples, once again are wrong>?
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- Ephesians 2:8
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
TITUS 3:3-7
Excellent post, zthatzmanz28
You are absolutely right that we are saved by grace, not by our works. Isaiah said that our righteousnesses were as filthy rags in the sight of God. It is only after we have received the Holy Spirit, and it leads us in bringing forth fruits of righteousness that any of our works are accepted by God - and we have nothing of which we can boast, since it is the Spirit of the Holy Ghost that is doing the works in and through us.
So, we are saved by WORKS? And the disciples, once again are wrong>?
Take a look at the title again, it is the commitment, a PART of the faith that saves that is required. The works are the evidence of the faith that is not a lie. Obviously there were teachers of the idea that "faith is all that is required" who then reached the "barracks lawyer" conclusion that works were not a necessary part of the Chrisatian life, because James directly addressed that idea with his famous "Show me your faith without your works and I will show my faith BY my works." Faith without works is not just "dead," it is a lie.
I have actually seen "reform theology" adherents actively discourage attempts to "spur each other to love and good works" because it was evidence that the person was not "relying on the finished work of Christ on the cross." Do you believe it?
Perhaps the better way to look at the quote in question is that the Spirit is given to those who make the commitment of faith who will then show it in their lives.
The vast majority of Protestant preachers teach that every believer in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and their Savior, automatically receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Billy Graham, in his daily syndicated newspaper clipping said many years ago in an answer to a woman who had some doubt of her standing before God told her that if she had ever trusted in Jesus as her Lord and Savior she was eternally saved and there was nothing she could do to lose her salvation.
In recent days Dr. David Jeremiah said essentially the same in one of his daily radio programs.
But is this a true statement? I know that Jesus said in John 6:[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. See also the words of Christ in John 10:[27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
So no man can pluck a believer out of the hand of Jesus or His Father. But can a believer walk away from his own salvation?
Jesus said in His parable about the sower in Luke 8:[13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
[14] And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
[15] But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
So it looks like He is saying that only those who bring forth fruits are the ones who are eternally saved.
Peter and the other Apostles said in Acts 5:32 That God gives the gift of the Holy Ghost to THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.
And Jesus said in Luke 8:[21] And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
See also Matt. 7:[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
SO IT APPEARS THAT ONLY THOSE WHO HEAR THE wORD OF GOD AND DO IT ARE, WILL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
So many people seem unable to distinguish between being eternally saved and being a disciple. They are not the same thing. Following Christ, being a disciple, producing fruit are things that are a part of the believer's spiritual life after having been eternally saved. But eternal life is freely given by grace through faith in Christ Jesus because Jesus paid the price for our salvation. All the work for our eternal salvation was accomplished by Jesus on the cross. It is finished. We cannot do anything to earn or maintain our eternal salvation. If there was any way for us to earn eternal life then there would have been no need for Christ to go to the cross on our behalf.
What did Jesus tell the Samaritan woman? He told her that all she needed to do was to ask for eternal life and it was hers. She didn't have to work for it, or make a commitment, or do anything other than to ask for the gift.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." . . . 14] but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
What did Jesus tell the unbelieving Jews who asked Him what works of God they could do that they might earn their eternal salvation? He told them that contrary to their belief that they could do anything to earn eternal life, the work (singular) of God was simply to believe in Him.
John 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (erga- plural) of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work (ergon-singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
What does the Holy Spirit say in Revelation 22:17?
Rev. 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
What did the apostle Paul say?
Rom. 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Can you not understand that the water of life which is eternal life is freely given without cost to you because Jesus already paid the cost for your eternal salvation on the cross and that all you have to do is to receive the gift which is offered to you by trusting in Jesus?
You like to refer to Acts 5:32 with reference to the Holy Spirit being given to those who obey God. But what acts of obedience did Cornelius and those to whom Peter gave the gospel (Acts 10) do other than to obey the command to believe in Jesus (Acts 16:31)? The Holy Spirit was given to all who were listening to Peter's message even while he was still speaking (Acts 10:44). They simply believed the gospel message which Peter was giving them and they received the Holy Spirit.
Did you understand that? The Holy Spirit was given to Cornelius and to the members of the audience to whom Peter was speaking even before he finished speaking. They had no opportunity to obey anything except the command to believe on Christ.
You also like to bring up Matthew 7:21. For that I will simply refer you to the following which is the view held by Dr. Robert Dean of West Houston Bible Church. He admits that his view of Matthew 7:21 is not the majority view which he also gives, and then gives his view. - http://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/...w/Matt-045.htm. That is a transcript of the class in which he referred to Matthew 7:21. Here is the actual class which you can listen to. - 45 - Judgment [b] - by Robert Dean - Dean Bible Ministries
Since the believer's eternal salvation never depends upon anything that he does, since eternal life is a matter of grace which excludes any merit on the part of man, the believer then cannot lose or walk away from his salvation. His eternal security is guaranteed. Romans 6:3-8 is a stated guarantee of the believer's eternal security.
Rom. 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4] Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7] for he who has died is freed from sin. 8] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
At the moment of faith in Christ every believer is baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ and identified with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection. Since every believer has been united with Christ in His death, since every believer has died with Christ, every believer will live with Christ. That is a promise. That is a guarantee. That is the believer's eternal security.
And I repeat. With a few exceptions at the beginning of the Church-age, every believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the moment he believes in Christ Jesus just as Cornelius and those to whom Peter gave the gospel message to were immediately indwelt. Not after having performed x amount of obedience.
The OP distorts the gospel as do so many people. Eternal life is freely given without any obligation on our part. Simply receive it by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. Discipleship is an entirely different issue and has nothing to do with receiving eternal life.
So many people seem unable to distinguish between being eternally saved and being a disciple.
That's because the only distinction is in the chicanery of people who have some sort of program. I'd like to follow the money where those teachers are concerned. The only possible difference is that they can toll in people to support them who do not wish to commit to a changed life but who have been scared by the prospect of eternal Hell (another scam).
Take a look at the title again, it is the commitment, a PART of the faith that saves that is required. The works are the evidence of the faith that is not a lie. Obviously there were teachers of the idea that "faith is all that is required" who then reached the "barracks lawyer" conclusion that works were not a necessary part of the Chrisatian life, because James directly addressed that idea with his famous "Show me your faith without your works and I will show my faith BY my works." Faith without works is not just "dead," it is a lie.
I have actually seen "reform theology" adherents actively discourage attempts to "spur each other to love and good works" because it was evidence that the person was not "relying on the finished work of Christ on the cross." Do you believe it?
Perhaps the better way to look at the quote in question is that the Spirit is given to those who make the commitment of faith who will then show it in their lives.
An excellent post, Nateswift
Many thanks for your very thoughtful words.
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