The SINGLE Verse That Should Make EVERY Christian Doubt the Bible (Deist, church)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them in the name of the Lord. Such a prayer offered in faith will HEAL the sick, and the Lord will make you well.
Now let's make sure we've got this straight: the Bible is inerrant. That means that it is God talking DIRECTLY to humanity, not James. It is God Himself making this promise to men,
Quote:
Pray to Me in faith and I will heal your sick loved ones and make them well
The language couldn't be more simple and direct and there's no smokescreen "context" that apologists can hide behind. It's an ironclad promise from God to His children that if His children pray to Him in faith, the person they are praying for will be cured and made well.
Down through 2000 years how many millions of Christians have done EXACTLY as the Lord commanded and prayed in faith only to see their beloved children die in misery and agony??????
Can there be any more convincing proof that the Bible is a fraud---that God DOES NOT keep His promises? Remember, if one promise in the Bible fails, then the whole Bible fails. It cannot be the Divine Word of God. It can be a good book for some helpful advice here and there like any other religious text, but it CANNOT be God's inspired Word, as fundamentalists love to claim.
Obviously the millions ( billyuns and billyuns?) of Christians down through the years who didn't get healed are simply faithless ones who didn't pray correctly and with enough faith. Like my family member who wouldn't take his kids to a doctor , or himself when he had a heart attack , and died from it because he laid in bed praying for God to heal him, and was so utterly faithless and insincere that he didn't even go to a doctor as he got worse and worse because he believed God would heal him per this verse.
Or the thousand in my town that prayed for the daughter of a friend and fellow church member of mine when she was paralyzed from a spinal injury. All of the evangelicals in my town apparently have no faith in God's ability to heal serious injuries, so she is still paralyzed. I mean, what else can it be but that all of them were simply praying without the proper faith in God?
Obviously the millions ( billyuns and billyuns?) of Christians down through the years who didn't get healed are simply faithless ones who didn't pray correctly and with enough faith.
I've heard a lot of ridiculous arguments on this board but that one takes the cake. You're actually saying, with a smile on your face I'm sure, that every single Christian who has ever prayed for healing (and that could add into the billions over 2000 years) for their children were fraudulent Christians who didn't have faith. This doesn't even warrant a response so I'll stop right there.
Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-09-2015 at 11:58 AM..
Reason: personal and insulting
Now let's make sure we've got this straight: the Bible is inerrant. That means that it is God talking DIRECTLY to humanity, not James. It is God Himself making this promise to men,
The language couldn't be more simple and direct and there's no smokescreen "context" that apologists can hide behind. It's an ironclad promise from God to His children that if His children pray to Him in faith, the person they are praying for will be cured and made well.
Down through 2000 years how many millions of Christians have done EXACTLY as the Lord commanded and prayed in faith only to see their beloved children die in misery and agony??????
Can there be any more convincing proof that the Bible is a fraud---that God DOES NOT keep His promises? Remember, if one promise in the Bible fails, then the whole Bible fails. It cannot be the Divine Word of God. It can be a good book for some helpful advice here and there like any other religious text, but it CANNOT be God's inspired Word, as fundamentalists love to claim.
Your reference to apologists hiding behind smoke screens makes your bias, and your intent for posting this thread (as well as your other threads) all too obvious.
Actually, the key to understanding what is being said here is indeed context. James is not referring to physical healing, but to spiritual healing.
Below is a class on James 5:13-20 given by Dr. Robert Dean of West Houston Bible Church. If anyone is interested then simply click to listen.
What follows is a transcript of the class above. Here is an excerpt of the transcript:
James 5:15 “and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick [weary].” So now we have a new translation here that is a little more accurate: [13] “Is anyone among you facing adversity? Let him pray. Is anyone encouraged [strengthened]? Let him sing praises. [14] Is anyone among you weary [weak spiritually]? {Then} he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; [15] and the prayer offered in faith will strengthen the one who is weary, and the Lord will lift him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.”
Looking at the last part of that verse we realize that maybe we are talking about something different from physical sickness, because as soon as we introduce the concept of sin we realize that what had happened was that this person had been converting the outside pressure of adversity into the inside pressure of stress in the soul. Their soul is fragmenting, it is compounding itself, they are a diyuxoj believer, double-minded, unstable in all their ways, and they have reached appoint where they are incapable of going forward. They are overwhelmed by depression, by discouragement, by failure, and so this is giving God’s solution here and it is related to the use of the faith-rest drill, specifically manifested in prayer.
Another thing we need to look at is some of the words for restoration that are used in the passage. V. 15: “The prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick.” The word there for “restore” is SOZO [swzw]. It means to deliver, and to save. The root meaning is to deliver and it is always necessary to look at the context to see what the deliverance is from. This is talking about realizing maturity in the spiritual life. Then it says the Lord will “raise him up,” the future tense EGEIRO [e)geirw] meaning to lift, to raise, to lift up, to restore, to stimulate or awaken. So we have a picture of a carnal believer, maybe a reversionist, who is completely away from the Lord, fragmenting his soul, and then he turns back but really doesn’t have the strength on his own because he has so blown it in his spiritual life that he calls other believers to pray for him.
Your reference to apologists hiding behind smoke screens makes your bias, and your intent for posting this thread (as well as your other threads) all too obvious.
Actually, the key to understanding what is being said here is indeed context. James is not referring to physical healing, but to spiritual healing.
Below is a class on James 5:13-20 given by Dr. Robert Dean of West Houston Bible Church. If anyone is interested then simply click to listen.
What follows is a transcript of the class above. Here is an excerpt of the transcript:
James 5:15 “and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick [weary].†So now we have a new translation here that is a little more accurate: [13] “Is anyone among you facing adversity? Let him pray. Is anyone encouraged [strengthened]? Let him sing praises. [14] Is anyone among you weary [weak spiritually]? {Then} he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; [15] and the prayer offered in faith will strengthen the one who is weary, and the Lord will lift him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.â€
Looking at the last part of that verse we realize that maybe we are talking about something different from physical sickness, because as soon as we introduce the concept of sin we realize that what had happened was that this person had been converting the outside pressure of adversity into the inside pressure of stress in the soul. Their soul is fragmenting, it is compounding itself, they are a diyuxoj believer, double-minded, unstable in all their ways, and they have reached appoint where they are incapable of going forward. They are overwhelmed by depression, by discouragement, by failure, and so this is giving God’s solution here and it is related to the use of the faith-rest drill, specifically manifested in prayer.
Another thing we need to look at is some of the words for restoration that are used in the passage. V. 15: “The prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick.†The word there for “restore†is SOZO [swzw]. It means to deliver, and to save. The root meaning is to deliver and it is always necessary to look at the context to see what the deliverance is from. This is talking about realizing maturity in the spiritual life. Then it says the Lord will “raise him up,†the future tense EGEIRO [e)geirw] meaning to lift, to raise, to lift up, to restore, to stimulate or awaken. So we have a picture of a carnal believer, maybe a reversionist, who is completely away from the Lord, fragmenting his soul, and then he turns back but really doesn’t have the strength on his own because he has so blown it in his spiritual life that he calls other believers to pray for him.
Well, with you Mike it's always a spiritual matter. It's the last refuge of a fundamentalist who has no other explanation for the obvious failure of the scriptures because when you argue spiritual the sky's the limit for excuses, so I'll stop right there as well and call your defense utterly ridiculous and without merit.
Now let's make sure we've got this straight: the Bible is inerrant. That means that it is God talking DIRECTLY to humanity, not James. It is God Himself making this promise to men,
The language couldn't be more simple and direct and there's no smokescreen "context" that apologists can hide behind. It's an ironclad promise from God to His children that if His children pray to Him in faith, the person they are praying for will be cured and made well.
Down through 2000 years how many millions of Christians have done EXACTLY as the Lord commanded and prayed in faith only to see their beloved children die in misery and agony??????
Can there be any more convincing proof that the Bible is a fraud---that God DOES NOT keep His promises? Remember, if one promise in the Bible fails, then the whole Bible fails. It cannot be the Divine Word of God. It can be a good book for some helpful advice here and there like any other religious text, but it CANNOT be God's inspired Word, as fundamentalists love to claim.
God keeps his promises, it is humans who lack understanding of what God tells them.
By the way, Thank You for every post and thread you start because each word Glorifies the God you so profoundly do not believe in.
Isn't it odd to you that the main topic of your life on this forum is discussing God, whom you know does not exist?
Well, with you Mike it's always a spiritual matter. It's the last refuge of a fundamentalist who has no other explanation for the obvious failure of the scriptures because when you argue spiritual the sky's the limit for excuses, so I'll stop right there as well and call your defense utterly ridiculous and without merit.
I didn't expect you to listen to the class. You are too far gone in apostasy and I leave you to it. I posted the class given by Dr. Dean for anyone who is interested in understanding what James was referring to.
God keeps his promises, it is humans who lack understanding of what God tells them.
By the way, Thank You for every post and thread you start because each word Glorifies the God you so profoundly do not believe in.
Isn't it odd to you that the main topic of your life on this forum is discussing God, whom you know does not exist?
FYI, I'm a deist. I believe in God but not as he is portrayed in the Bible. The Bible has proven itself a failure in keeping promises that are made in it and the millions of parents whose prayers were never answered is just the latest reason why roughly 60% of young people are dropping out of Christianity---because they can see with their own eyes that promises like James 5:14-15 are not worth the paper they're printed on.
I've heard a lot of ridiculous arguments on this board but that one takes the cake. You're actually saying, with a smile on your face I'm sure, that every single Christian who has ever prayed for healing (and that could add into the billions over 2000 years) for their children were fraudulent Christians who didn't have faith. This doesn't even warrant a response so I'll stop right there.
PS How on earth did you get to a reputation 1965 with half-baked theories like that?
I guess I should have used the [/sarcasm] sign. I would have thought it obvious.
And where do you see me having a rep of 1965? that's your rep?
I didn't expect you to listen to the class. You are too far gone in apostasy and I leave you to it. I posted the class given by Dr. Dean for anyone who is interested in understanding what James was referring to.
Its' excuse making, nothing more. And if you'd take off those rose-colored glasses for even a few seconds you'd see what I'm saying is right. But you will defend the indefensible with your last breath so I don't expect you to listen to reason either.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
