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A discussion on another thread I had started suggested to me there is serious confusion about God’s nature on the part of the promoters of what I have been calling Christianity Lite.
Christians worship God as He has revealed Himself to us. He has revealed Himself as a God of perfect holiness, perfect justice and perfect love.
The promoters of Christianity Lite claim to see inconsistency between the “God of pure love” they say they worship and the God who issues commands, demands obedience, sits in judgment and condemns. There is no inconsistency.
God’s holiness cannot abide the sin that flows from humans’ misuse of the free will with which they were blessed. Hence, there is an estrangement that humans cannot bridge through their own efforts.
God’s perfect justice requires that there be consequences for humans’ misuse of their free will. We will ultimately see that those consequences – what we now call Hell – will be worthy of the perfectly holy, just and loving Creator of the universe.
Before the foundation of the world, before the first act of creation, God knew that humans would rebel. He knew that He would demonstrate His perfect love through the incarnation, death and resurrection of Jesus. This demonstration of His perfect love was the very purpose of His act of creation. This self-sacrifice would also satisfy God’s perfect justice. The OT sacrifices served as a model for what God would eventually do for humanity.
So perfect is God’s love that all a human must do to receive the gift of salvation is acknowledge his sinful state and his dependence on God’s grace. Those who are unwilling to acknowledge this are not “sent” to Hell; they send themselves through the same misuse of their free will that caused humans to rebel against God in the first place.
To ignore God’s perfect holiness and perfect justice, as the promoters of Christianity Lite blatantly do, is to invent a new god and a new religion. The God of Christianity is a God of perfect holiness and perfect justice as well as perfect love.
The God of Christianity Lite is not really a god of perfect love at all. He is a doddering old fool who finds his children’s antics endlessly cute and amusing, who just wants them to have a good time while they are here. Anyone who views this as perfect love has a very juvenile concept of love.
God’s perfect love cannot be separated from His perfect holiness and perfect justice. They are as indivisible as the persons of the Trinity. For wolves in sheep's clothing to carve out “love” from holiness and justice, pervert it so that it becomes nothing more than some juvenile, self-serving human concept, and then claim the end result is Christianity is, in my opinion, exactly the sort of thing the NT warns will occur in the last days.
A discussion on another thread I had started suggested to me there is serious confusion about God’s nature on the part of the promoters of what I have been calling Christianity Lite.
Christians worship God as He has revealed Himself to us. He has revealed Himself as a God of perfect holiness, perfect justice and perfect love.
The promoters of Christianity Lite claim to see inconsistency between the “God of pure love” they say they worship and the God who issues commands, demands obedience, sits in judgment and condemns. There is no inconsistency.
God’s holiness cannot abide the sin that flows from humans’ misuse of the free will with which they were blessed. Hence, there is an estrangement that humans cannot bridge through their own efforts.
God’s perfect justice requires that there be consequences for humans’ misuse of their free will. We will ultimately see that those consequences – what we now call Hell – will be worthy of the perfectly holy, just and loving Creator of the universe.
Before the foundation of the world, before the first act of creation, God knew that humans would rebel. He knew that He would demonstrate His perfect love through the incarnation, death and resurrection of Jesus. This demonstration of His perfect love was the very purpose of His act of creation. This self-sacrifice would also satisfy God’s perfect justice. The OT sacrifices served as a model for what God would eventually do for humanity.
So perfect is God’s love that all a human must do to receive the gift of salvation is acknowledge his sinful state and his dependence on God’s grace. Those who are unwilling to acknowledge this are not “sent” to Hell; they send themselves through the same misuse of their free will that caused humans to rebel against God in the first place.
To ignore God’s perfect holiness and perfect justice, as the promoters of Christianity Lite blatantly do, is to invent a new god and a new religion. The God of Christianity is a God of perfect holiness and perfect justice as well as perfect love.
The God of Christianity Lite is not really a god of perfect love at all. He is a doddering old fool who finds his children’s antics endlessly cute and amusing, who just wants them to have a good time while they are here. Anyone who views this as perfect love has a very juvenile concept of love.
God’s perfect love cannot be separated from His perfect holiness and perfect justice. They are as indivisible as the persons of the Trinity. For wolves in sheep's clothing to carve out “love” from holiness and justice, pervert it so that it becomes nothing more than some juvenile, self-serving human concept, and then claim the end result is Christianity is, in my opinion, exactly the sort of thing the NT warns will occur in the last days.
For a Christian, God is revealed through Jesus the Christ, period. Please cite Jesus revealing that God REQUIRES consequences for human sin since Jesus says God is reconciled to us and is NOT counting our sins against us.
For a Christian, God is revealed through Jesus the Christ, period. Please cite Jesus revealing that God REQUIRES consequences for human sin since Jesus says God is reconciled to us and is NOT counting our sins against us.
It is incorrect to portray that God is only revealed through Jesus Christ. He is revealed in creation, in the organization of what is created, formerly through prophets, formerly through theophanies, through Jesus Christ, through the Bible, and through the Holy Spirit.
Regarding your second sentence, Jesus said neither of those statements.
For a Christian, God is revealed through Jesus the Christ, period. Please cite Jesus revealing that God REQUIRES consequences for human sin since Jesus says God is reconciled to us and is NOT counting our sins against us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
It is incorrect to portray that God is only revealed through Jesus Christ. He is revealed in creation, in the organization of what is created, formerly through prophets, formerly through theophanies, through Jesus Christ, through the Bible, and through the Holy Spirit.
What you say may apply to a Bibleian, but NOT to a Christian.
Quote:
Regarding your second sentence, Jesus said neither of those statements.
I refer you to:
2 Corinthians 5:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
If you reject Paul's understanding and interpretation, then we are at an impasse.
God’s perfect love cannot be separated from His perfect holiness and perfect justice. They are as indivisible as the persons of the Trinity. For wolves in sheep's clothing to carve out “love” from holiness and justice, pervert it so that it becomes nothing more than some juvenile, self-serving human concept, and then claim the end result is Christianity is, in my opinion, exactly the sort of thing the NT warns will occur in the last days.
If you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them. ― Thomas More
For a Christian, God is revealed through Jesus the Christ, period. Please cite Jesus revealing that God REQUIRES consequences for human sin since Jesus says God is reconciled to us and is NOT counting our sins against us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
It is incorrect to portray that God is only revealed through Jesus Christ. He is revealed in creation, in the organization of what is created, formerly through prophets, formerly through theophanies, through Jesus Christ, through the Bible, and through the Holy Spirit.
Regarding your second sentence, Jesus said neither of those statements.
I really think Jesus did say that. Well, actually here is the QUOTE:
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
-------------------------2 Corinthians 5:18--19
If one wants to play READ THAT SCRIPTURE,one must simpley KNOW the scriptures which they claim to use to oppress and manipulate the masses..
I really think Jesus did say that. Well, actually here is the QUOTE:
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
-------------------------2 Corinthians 5:18--19
If one wants to play READ THAT SCRIPTURE,one must simpley KNOW the scriptures which they claim to use to oppress and manipulate the masses..
Good morning,
Yes, but this is all consistent with the admonition to believe on Christ. Otherwise, there really would be no point to all the other Scripture which tells us to repent and believe.
We read in one place: "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him (John 3:36).
Those whose sins are not counted against them are those who come to faith in Christ. We may preach the love of God in Christ, which is exactly what we must do. But we must also make it clear to those with whom we share why Jesus came, and in what sense He is our Savior.
The news is good news for man, indeed. I'm not certain why there is so much controversy in this forum over these issues. We can simply declare the following:
Rom 5:8-9 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
John 3:16 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Surely there is a great deal more, but this speaks to the issue at hand. God, through an unspeakable act of love and mercy, has provided salvation through Jesus Christ, for all who will abandon any thoughts of self-worthiness, but will instead humble themselves and believe only on the finished work of Christ on their behalf. Then our sins will, indeed, be forgiven, and we will be given the gift of eternal life in Christ Jesus.
....
The God of Christianity Lite is not really a god of perfect love at all. He is a doddering old fool who finds his children’s antics endlessly cute and amusing, who just wants them to have a good time while they are here. Anyone who views this as perfect love has a very juvenile concept of love.
God’s perfect love cannot be separated from His perfect holiness and perfect justice. They are as indivisible as the persons of the Trinity. For wolves in sheep's clothing to carve out “love” from holiness and justice, pervert it so that it becomes nothing more than some juvenile, self-serving human concept, and then claim the end result is Christianity is, in my opinion, exactly the sort of thing the NT warns will occur in the last days.
When you use the "big lie" technique of propaganda to denigrate a view different from yours it is clear that you have no real confidence in your own.
Your "Christianity Lite" is not the one who separates God's love from His holiness and justice, YOU are. YOU think they are incompatible and God must choose one or two over the other, but THAT is the lie.
This has been explained to you. but you refuse to address it other than repeating your lie.
The OP is generally on target. To truly understand God's character, you can't take love and reject His holiness, justice, and the rest of who He is. Otherwise, you are making your own god to worship... which really means you are your own god, since you created the god you desire to worship.
2 Corinthians 5:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
If you reject Paul's understanding and interpretation, then we are at an impasse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
I really think Jesus did say that. Well, actually here is the QUOTE:
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
-------------------------2 Corinthians 5:18--19
If one wants to play READ THAT SCRIPTURE,one must simpley KNOW the scriptures which they claim to use to oppress and manipulate the masses..
Didn't Paul write the book of 2 Corinthians? Jesus was already gone from the earth and residing in heaven at that point.
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