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What is that supposed to mean? I accept evangelical Christianity’s take on John 3:16, that is clearly not saying believe in me or perish in eternal hell?.What do you mean my desired outcome?, all evangelicals have a desired outcome in this, you believe you are saved from pe8shing in eternal hell and going to heaven , John 3:16 as got to do as much about going to heaven as it’s got to do with me going to the moon. Just address why Jesus never said “You will perish”, he said you will not perish.
Your desired outcome is that all are saved. You have said in the past that you would not worship Christ if all are not saved.
I am saying to let God handle the final outcome, and worship Christ regardless of the outcome.
Your desired outcome is that all are saved. You have said in the past that you would not worship Christ if all are not saved.
I am saying to let God handle the final outcome, and worship Christ regardless of the outcome.
It is my desire not only because is it God's but a God given desire too, so we share the same desire, but above that, unlike you i know he cannot fail to perform his will. No, I will not worship God how you do believing that multitudes with be eternally tormented and i certainly will not worship a God for eternally tormenting those that did not become christians, because at the end of the day that is what you believe, you have to be a christian to go to heaven.
Here's the difference between you and me (or at least Pcamps as he has expressed in the past).
I have no problem being wrong - and if Christ chooses to save everyone... great. The outcome doesn't matter to me.
However, if you are wrong - and Christ sends some people eternally to the lake of fire - would you still worship Christ? Pcamps has said no.
Some? Lol,you do not believe that. Do you think i was born yesterday?. You are basically saying if God is going to eternally torment folk and act like it never happened you are ok with it, then somehow all the evangelicals worship him in heaven having the thought that loved ones and friends are in eternal torment magically removed from their memories.
It is my desire not only because is it God's but a God given desire too, so we share the same desire, but above that, unlike you i know he cannot fail to perform his will. No, I will not worship God how you do believing that multitudes with be eternally tormented and i certainly will not worship a God for eternally tormenting those that did not become christians, because at the end of the day that is what you believe, you have to be a christian to go to heaven.
OK - as long as I am being accurate...
This is outcome based Christianity... which is really not Christianity.
Those who follow Christ trust Him fully and do not give Him litmus tests in order to be followed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Would I worship a God who punishes without capability to change, simple vengeance? No, that is not love.
This is outcome based Christianity... which is really not Christianity.
Those who follow Christ trust Him fully and do not give Him litmus tests in order to be followed.
I thought I already made that statement.
Actually what you believe is tickle your ears christianity. The outcome is, God fullfills his desire and that desire is all come to a knowledge of the truth and be saved. There you have it, salvation is coming to the knowledge of the truth, not some conjured up belief system of the evangelicals that tickles their ears every time they hear Jesus saved you from eternal flames, rejoice you are heaven bound. It's a complete and utter lie, that's what that is.
Those who follow Christ trust Him fully and do not give Him litmus tests in order to be followed.
I thought I already made that statement.
So you follow someone without first checking them out by some form of standard ?, such as this , "Where did Jesus oir the Apostles teach that the good news was about being saved from eternal torment?". What you really did was follow a belief you was convinced of by others skillful in the message of evangelical christianity(Not God). You should have litmus tested what you heard before giving it your approval.
Here's the difference between you and me (or at least Pcamps as he has expressed in the past).
I have no problem being wrong - and if Christ chooses to save everyone... great. The outcome doesn't matter to me. However, if you are wrong - and Christ sends some people eternally to the lake of fire - would you still worship Christ? Pcamps has said no.
If it doesn't matter what the outcome is, then you are an extremely selfish person.
And, no, I wouldn't worship an eternal terrorist full of violence and intimidation either.
John 3:14-16 - 14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So it is for us. Jesus foretold that He was to be lifted up on the cross - and whomever believes in Him (our acknowledgement of our sin, His death for sin, His physical resurrection to new & eternal life) will have eternal life with God.
I find God did Not send from heaven a heavenly physical body Jesus to Earth for us, but a spirit body to be born a physical human.
Since Jesus had to use different materialized physical bodies after his God resurrected Jesus, then the dead Jesus was resurrected by his God back to his spirit body. If resurrected Jesus was in his physical body then his followers would have easily recognized him. Even at the grave site the resurrected spirit Jesus was Not recognized until he spoke and revealed himself.
Besides repenting of our sins, Jesus death for our sins, and that his God resurrected Jesus in a spirit body, as Jesus said at Matthew 24:13 we must endure to the end in order to be saved/delivered/rescued.
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