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This is a question for those Christians who are not tied to Christian doctrines which are based on a punishing God, or that "salvation" has to do with avoiding an afterlife in hell or being snuffed out by God.
So, the topic I'd love to hear discussion on is:
If one looks at the principle of reaping what we sow in the here and now as "the Law" (which often -- obviously without malice or intent -- condemns, and wreaks vengeance and destruction, and is punishing), how do you believe "grace" and "salvation" and Jesus fit in to the picture? Obviously, we're not talking about a penal system here, so how do these Christian concepts address how one can be "saved" from negative natural consequences of "violating" the law of reaping/sowing. Is it only preemptive, or is there some redemption involved as well?
This is a question for those Christians who are not tied to Christian doctrines which are based on a punishing God, or that "salvation" has to do with avoiding an afterlife in hell or being snuffed out by God.
So, the topic I'd love to hear discussion on is:
If one looks at the principle of reaping what we sow in the here and now as "the Law" (which often -- obviously without malice or intent -- condemns, and wreaks vengeance and destruction, and is punishing), how do you believe "grace" and "salvation" and Jesus fit in to the picture? Obviously, we're not talking about a penal system here, so how do these Christian concepts address how one can be "saved" from negative natural consequences of "violating" the law of reaping/sowing. Is it only preemptive, or is there some redemption involved as well?
You ever noticed how that you reap what you sow is almost warning like, rather than encouragement to sow into the Spirit?. It's one of the reasons i cannot go along with anything remotely to do with bible fundamentalism, it is flesh focused rather Spirit focused.
The outrageousness of grace still baffles people who have only heard the ten commandments all their lives. Grace is UNMERITED favor......and it's Jesus idea......so strange to people who have had to have FAITH and WORKS before grace came on the scene. The 12 disciples had trouble with it, so most of us will too. FAITH in Jesus + NOTHING just sounds too good to be true but it is. Jesus gave the law to Moses and He gave the message of GRACE to Paul. A most unlikely person to spread it but he did. The only requirement today is to believe the gospel Jesus gave to Paul in 1Cor 15:1-4.
Romans 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are NOT under law but under grace.
Good luck in your studies........most have missed the message
You ever noticed how that you reap what you sow is almost warning like, rather than encouragement to sow into the Spirit?. It's one of the reasons i cannot go along with anything remotely to do with bible fundamentalism, it is flesh focused rather Spirit focused.
Those ambling down the "broad" "way" to "destruction", are looking at the destruction of the flesh (Matthew 7:13. They are already among the walking dead, and are apparently without the Spirit of God. That they call up down, and down up, and good evil and evil good, is but another testament of the road they apparently walk.
The outrageousness of grace still baffles people who have only heard the ten commandments all their lives. Grace is UNMERITED favor......and it's Jesus idea......so strange to people who have had to have FAITH and WORKS before grace came on the scene. The 12 disciples had trouble with it, so most of us will too. FAITH in Jesus + NOTHING just sounds too good to be true but it is. Jesus gave the law to Moses and He gave the message of GRACE to Paul. A most unlikely person to spread it but he did. The only requirement today is to believe the gospel Jesus gave to Paul in 1Cor 15:1-4.
Romans 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are NOT under law but under grace.
Good luck in your studies........most have missed the message
Of course, one must believe the false prophet Paul to go along with your misapprehensions. That is like holding on to the tail of the lemming in front of you as he goes off a cliff. As for who missed the message, it would be the ones without ears to hear or eyes to see (Isaiah 6:8-10), or in the words of Daniel 12:10, the "wicked", which would be the lawless, the church of the tares, the church of Paul.
Karma is an interesting concept. I believe that we will get what we give in some measure even if it is only the realization of the harm we have caused and empathy for those who have suffered at our hands. Grace allows that realization and feeling to be enough to set us onto a better way of relating to God and man.
The outrageousness of grace still baffles people who have only heard the ten commandments all their lives. Grace is UNMERITED favor......and it's Jesus idea......so strange to people who have had to have FAITH and WORKS before grace came on the scene. The 12 disciples had trouble with it, so most of us will too. FAITH in Jesus + NOTHING just sounds too good to be true but it is. Jesus gave the law to Moses and He gave the message of GRACE to Paul. A most unlikely person to spread it but he did. The only requirement today is to believe the gospel Jesus gave to Paul in 1Cor 15:1-4.
Romans 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are NOT under law but under grace.
Good luck in your studies........most have missed the message
Grace is the empowering Presence and Power of God that enables us to be who He created us to be; and to do what He has called us to do. It has nothing to do with his mercy (unmerited favor). Rather, it is that which enables us to overcome, any and all obstacles which might be hindering our Spiritual growth and maturity. Unmerited favor, would be that of having or showing mercy to an enemy through that of love. Especially, one who spitefully persecutes you, "father forgive them for they know not what they do," even if they should reap what they have sown negatively to the fullest extent of the law.
This is a question for those Christians who are not tied to Christian doctrines which are based on a punishing God, or that "salvation" has to do with avoiding an afterlife in hell or being snuffed out by God.
So, the topic I'd love to hear discussion on is:
If one looks at the principle of reaping what we sow in the here and now as "the Law" (which often -- obviously without malice or intent -- condemns, and wreaks vengeance and destruction, and is punishing), how do you believe "grace" and "salvation" and Jesus fit in to the picture? Obviously, we're not talking about a penal system here, so how do these Christian concepts address how one can be "saved" from negative natural consequences of "violating" the law of reaping/sowing. Is it only preemptive, or is there some redemption involved as well?
People do not always believe the concept of reap what you sow, because of the general time difference between one and the other. Malachi 3:14-4:3 For those God loves, the consequences may be rapid, but that is not the general case. The "Christian" concept of being saved, may give them some passing comfort. My sister just died, and she was some sort of Baptist, and previously a Catholic, and she espoused such a belief, but when it came down to brass tacks, just before she died she called me, the guy who says you are judged per your deeds, not your false beliefs (Revelation 20:12). I only had bad news for her. Regardless, she is at rest in the earth, and will have to wait for the white throne judgment to find the final results, as she as a member of the church of the tares, "Christian" church, she had the mark of the beast, which apparently is not accepted in the millennium hierarchy (Revelation 20:4).
This probably needs to be moved to the general religion area, since God was removed from the thread's premise...
Why? Because your version of God is one of wrath and punishment?
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Because your version of God is one of wrath and punishment?
