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To me, the most compelling argument is someone like Geeki. What strange magic is this that she is the target of so much hate and judgement yet she shines so?
To me, the most compelling argument is someone like Geeki. What strange magic is this that she is the target of so much hate and judgement yet she shines so?
Wait a minute.....you mean Geeki Tikis from Star Wars? LOL I don't know who "Geeki" is other than that. But I am aware of the FSM.
Northsouth, in your profile, under Religion/World view, you entered 'none,' so you might not agree with what follows.
The Christian faith is based on historical events which occurred some two thousand years ago. I won't quote scripture since you asked not to, but historians do regard the Gospels as primary historical sources for what we know about Jesus. Most historians who are involved with Jesus studies, even critical/skeptical historians who do not themselves believe that Jesus was actually resurrected, recognize that his disciples believed that they saw Jesus alive after his crucifixion and that they were willing to suffer and die because of their belief that they saw the risen Jesus.
I'm currently reading E. P. Sanders' book, The Historical Figure of Jesus. Sanders is a critical/skeptical New Testament scholar and historian and is not an evangelical/apologist. He provided a list of some of the things we know about Jesus that in his words are ''almost beyond dispute,''
Jesus was born c. 4 BCE, near the time of the death of Herod the Great;
he spent his childhood and early adult years in Nazareth, a Galilean village;
he was baptized by John the Baptist;
he called disciples;
he taught in the towns, villages and countryside of Galilee (apparently not the cities);
he preached 'the kingdom of God';
about the year 30 he went to Jerusalem for Passover;
he created a disturbance in the temple area;
he had a final meal with the disciples;
he was arrested and interrogated by Jewish authorities, specifically the high priest;
he was executed on the orders of the Roman prefect, Pontius Pilate.
We may add here a short list of equally secure facts about the aftermath of Jesus' life:
his disciples at first fled;
they saw him (in what sense is not certain) after his death;
as a consequence, they believed that he would return to found the kingdom;
they formed a community to await his return and sought to win others to faith in him as God's Messiah. [Bolding mine]
The Historical Figure of Jesus, Sanders, pp. 10-11
Sanders' personal view regarding the resurrection of Jesus is;
''That Jesus' followers (and later Paul) had resurrection experiences is, in my judgement, a fact. What the reality was that gave rise to the experiences I do not know.''
The Historical Figure of Jesus, Sanders, p. 280
Historian and scholar of religious studies, Paula Fredriksen writes;
''On or around Passover, Jesus died on a cross as King of he Jews.
But shortly thereafter, various groups of his followers were convinced that they saw him again, raised from the dead.''
''Absolutely certain that Jesus was dead, some members of this small group began to perceive, and then to proclaim, that Jesus lived again. God, they said, had raised him from the dead.
What these disciples actually saw or experienced is now impossible to say.''
Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, Fredriksen, pp. 235, 261
Real, historical disciples of Jesus truly believed that they saw Jesus alive again after his death, and as a result devoted their lives to proclaiming the risen Jesus, and at least some of them were martyred for doing so. None of the naturalistic explanations for why the disciples believed they saw the resurrected Jesus have the explanatory scope and power to adequately account for their experiences. Explanations such as a conspiracy on the part of the disciples, mistaken identity, hallucinations, the swoon theory, just don't hold up. The best explanation for why the disciples believed they saw the risen Jesus is that they actually did.
The reason I believe is because of the historical evidence. No one dies for what they know to be a lie. The disciples who were eyewitnesses to the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus suffered, and in at least some cases, died for their witness of Jesus. And I stress the point that they were eyewitnesses rather than people who believed based on second hand information which had been passed down by others.
This of course won't convince anyone who simply can't get past his anti-supernatural bias and hermeneutic of suspicion. The historical evidence exists, but each person must come to his own conclusion concerning whether the evidence is valid or not.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-10-2019 at 04:35 PM..
Faith?...piece o' cake...never believe anything you have not seen for yourself, my friend.
So, say you wanted to develop this faith-thing cuz seems neat. I dunno.
So you experiment with baby steps...ask the Universe, or this Universal thing called Conscious Intelligence. or your angels, who cares...for a safety pin when hiking (and need it)...look ,and there
it will be on the ground.
Try something bigger next...Ask for some obscure book (or red cup)...but not for $26 new...for cheap, like $1.
(Then, you have to go to Thrift Book stores or garage sales, of course, and keep positive expecting it to come to you.)
Faith is like building muscles...slow at first before you ask for the big weights.
OH the stories I could tell you...but why? No one would believe them and you don't know me from Adam.
Work the program yourself...and see. Don't believe anyone or anything you read.
Added: And btw, who gives a hoot whether you change your mind...I'm
too concerned about myself and having a good time to care about YOU and if you have faith or not...
To me, the most compelling argument is someone like Geeki. What strange magic is this that she is the target of so much hate and judgement yet she shines so?
Wait a minute.....you mean Geeki Tikis from Star Wars? LOL I don't know who "Geeki" is other than that. But I am aware of the FSM.
Geekigurl is a regular poster, a Christian who is transgender. She has endured a great deal on this forum from people who consider her to be a sinner and abomination because of who she is, and yet she keeps on going and doesn't hate them.
If you want to know more about who she is, look at Post No. 3896 in the thread at the top of the page entitled "Non-Debate Friendship Thread."
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