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Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
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The Old Testament tells about the prophet Elijah and an incident that occurred when he was fleeing from Ahab and Jezebel after they had threatened his life. Elijah travelled a day's journey, then he sat under a tree and wished to die. An angel was sent to Elijah and told him to eat, so Elijah ate and drank then laid back down. A second time, the angel told him to eat. Elijah again ate and drank. Refreshed and strengthened, Elijah travelled another 40 days until he reached Mount Horeb. This is where the story gets interesting!
Elijah sought refuge in a cave on the mountain of God. While he was resting for the evening, the word of the Lord came to him. After a brief exchange, the Lord told Elijah, "Go out and stand on the mountain before the Lord."
And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.
So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him, and said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
June, are you looking for some exciting event to convince you of God's existence? He's not to be found in the wind, earthquake, or fire. In fact, those events tend to frighten people away rather than draw them closer to God. Elijah didn't go to the entrance to the cave until all the excitement was over. That's when Elijah heard the still small voice, the gentle whisper. It was only after hearing the voice that Elijah went to the entrance of the cave, and it was only after going to the cave's entrance that he heard the Lord's instruction.
Jesus likened himself to a shepherd. He said that his sheep recognize his voice. I believe Jesus is calling everyone, but his voice is drowned out by the events in our lives. Non-Christians can't hear him through the noise of the wind, earthquake, and fire in their lives. Yet, he's still calling. Perhaps you need to put away all the distractions (job, education, pride, stubbornness, self-sufficiency, philosophy, voices of other people, etc.) and listen for God's gentle whisper.
Read the Bible and listen for his voice. The book of John has the story of the Good Shepherd. It also talks about a gate, a vine, bread, and other things that might appeal to the poet in June. You can also find God in the Psalms--more poetry! Actually, you can find God/Jesus throughout the entire Bible; however, you must be still enough to hear his gentle voice. He's promised that if you seek him, you will find him. Once you find him, you will KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt.
The Bible invites you to drink of the Living Water (Jesus) and eat of his word (the Bible). You'll need both the water and food to sustain you on your journey, just as Elijah needed both food and water to gain the strength for his journey.
-------
Yes, June, I firmly believe I would still know God even if I'd been born in Tibet. The extraneous noise might have been louder, but God would have still been calling me. He has put the truth in the human heart, and he has confirmed it through his creation and history. The Shepherd would have known when the noise was quiet enough for me to hear His voice, just like I know when the street noise is quiet enough that my dogs will hear my voice when I call them. Just like my dogs, though, I would have to choose whether or not I want to respond when I hear my Master's voice. Since I responded to God's voice while living in the U.S., I believe I would have responded to his voice if I lived elsewhere. After all, I responded to his voice even though I lived in a non-Christian household.
Last edited by Blueberry; 04-25-2008 at 03:30 AM..
June, are you looking for some exciting event to convince you of God's existence? He's not to be found in the wind, earthquake, or fire.
I believe Jesus is calling everyone, but his voice is drowned out by the events in our lives. Non-Christians can't hear him through the noise of the wind, earthquake, and fire in their lives. Yet, he's still calling. Perhaps you need to put away all the distractions (job, education, pride, stubbornness, self-sufficiency, philosophy, voices of other people, etc.) and listen for God's gentle whisper.
Read the Bible and listen for his voice. The book of John has the story of the Good Shepherd. It also talks about a gate, a vine, bread, and other things that might appeal to the poet in June.
Blueberry: June found your post quite interesting! It made June "ponder." In response to the above:
No, June is not , (absolutely NOT) looking for any exciting event to convince her of God's existence. June is more than aware of the fact that something like that simply doesn't happen. June does not expect to see the sky crack open to reveal the heavens to her, nor does she expect to suddenly be struck down in a moment of revelation. June would be extremely suspect if either of those events (or others like them) were experienced by her. (She would also quit her job.) June is, (on the other hand) on quite good terms with solitude. --Meaning that June lives a happy, content, and above all quiet life. It's a good thing. June is not sure that she hears any "still small voices" at all.
--She does hear Canadian geese occassionally, though, which tie into the "music."
(And no, I am not being facetious.)
You see, June believes that if your God exists, then He undoubtedly has the power and the capacity to reveal Himself in a myriad of ways. What June cannot seem to "connect" (along with the music and the band) are those ways in which that happens or transpires. Setting all metaphors and analogies aside, June honestly doesn't get it. June is not saying she wouldn't like to "get it" or isn't open to "getting it," but she nonetheless feels as though she is speaking another language. June has read the Bible. (Quite recently, in fact.) You are correct: the prose and parables and gospels are all truly beautiful, and in fact do appeal to the poet in June. However, June is having a hard time "finding" anything other than beautiful prose there...
You see, you all know. I fully realize and validate that. But for someone like June, it's a question of how do you know it? I suspect that many, if not most, would tell June that she is not looking in the right places; that she is not attending to the Word...But what June can only say in response is that June is not able to start and eventually end where others are able to. June cannot go from A ------> Z. For one thing, June lacks the context. No doubt that is why metaphors and analogies got June's attention back when they did. To tell June that she hears the music, but denies the band is something she can relate to. It literally captures her attention, makes her think, and causes her to go and hmmmm... I could read the first chapter of John from now until the sky falls in, but I don't get it...I'm sorry. I just don't. --Which isn't to say I wouldn't like to.
So let's just say that June might hear the occassional note. It could take June a very, very, very long time (the equivalent of a "June eternity") just for June to validate that experience for herself. So let's assume she does. How does that = Christian God?
That is the connection June is asking about. That is the connection that she realizes you all have. --And June is happy that you all have it; she truly is. But June is also aware of the fact that "religious experience" covers an extremely broad spectrum. As do musical notes. Where is the connection?
In reality, June is thoroughly aware of the fact that none of you can truly give to me that which I am ponderling or attempting to comprehend. June nonetheless reads all your posts and holds you, and them, in her heart. She truly does. She is not sure how to "hear" what you all do.
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
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June,
When I first read your OP (shortly after you submitted it), I was overwhelmed. How in the world could I possibly answer the question, "How do you know?" I've received confirmation of my beliefs in so many ways, I simply didn't know where to start to answer your question. Simple Living pointed out some of my thoughts, albeit in a more concise way than I ever could. Others have mentioned even more thoughts I share. Yet, there's so much more. This truly is a personal journey, and none of our answers will probably be able to satisfy you.
I'm not surprised, June, that you have such a hard time seeing or hearing what I see or hear. You have a lifetime of experiences behind you. You've put many different ideas in the garden of your mind. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say your garden contains many noxious plants. (Mine did, and it probably still does.) Some of the most dangerous plants are very beautiful. Some people uproot the dangerous plants with vigor because they don't want to be accidentally poisoned, some reluctantly uproot them but miss the "comfort" and beauty they provide, others keep them out of ignorance, and yet others not only know what they are but cultivate more because they like the noxious plants for whatever reasons. And let's not forget the weeds that will take over if given the opportunity; they're not necessarily harmful but they keep us from seeing the beauty of the garden and hearing the string quartet tucked away in the corner, or they keep the garden from being as productive as it can be.
I think, dear June, you have too many plants in your garden. I happen to know a Master Gardener that would love to meet you. All you have to do is trust him, and he'll give you the vision to see what the rest of us do. I daresay, you might even have room for an entire orchestra if you let him plan your garden.
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,388,203 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th
Blueberry: June honestly doesn't get it. June is not saying she wouldn't like to "get it" or isn't open to "getting it," but she nonetheless feels as though she is speaking another language. June has read the Bible. (Quite recently, in fact.) You are correct: the prose and parables and gospels are all truly beautiful, and in fact do appeal to the poet in June. However, June is having a hard time "finding" anything other than beautiful prose there...
. . .
June cannot go from A ------> Z. For one thing, June lacks the context.
There are two sermons in the Bible that you might find interesting. One was delivered by the apostle Peter on the day of Pentecost. Three thousand people believed after hearing Peter speak. Contrast that situation with Paul's. When Paul spoke to a group of people in Athens, a few believed. What was the difference between the two sermons? Context!
Peter spoke to people of Israel who had heard about God their whole lives and knew the context of Peter's sermon; all Peter had to do was connect the dots of their existing knowledge with the knowledge of who Jesus was. Paul, on the other hand, was speaking to a group of Greeks who did not have the background knowledge that the men of Israel possessed. Paul's task was much more difficult than Peter's because Paul had to go back to the beginning. He started with the basics of God's attributes, moved on to creation, then Adam, then God's interaction with the nations, culminating with the resurrection of the dead (Jesus). Paul had to draw the dots before he could connect them.
I'm sure there are people on this forum who would love to draw the dots for you, June, so you could connect them. By now, you probably realize I'd caution you to not let just anyone draw the dots or you may get the wrong picture.
seek and you will find....
knock and the door will be opened to you....
the Music has searched for June, and the Music knows her....
the Music makes June lie down in green pastures...and leads her to still waters...
and restores her soul....
the Music guides June in the path of righteousness for the sake of Music....
even is June shoild walk in the valleys of shadows and death.....June will fear no evil..
for the Music is with June...the Music will comfort June...
The Music annoints Junes head with oil and her cup is overflowing....
Surely goodness and love will follow June all the days or her life, for she will dwell in the house of the Lord forever..........
That, June is the Word of God...... Psalm 23....
June God is often heard as a still small voice.
May June in her "meditating quiet existance" possibly talk to God???
like writting your own Music.....a conversation if you will.......with the Composer Himself...
Last edited by nay624; 04-25-2008 at 11:10 PM..
Reason: add
seek and you will find....
knock and the door will be opened to you....
the Music has searched for June, and the Music knows her....
the Music makes June lie down in green pastures...and leads her to still waters...
and restores her soul....
the Music guides June in the path of righteousness for the sake of Music....
even is June shoild walk in the valleys of shadows and death.....June will fear no evil..
for the Music is with June...the Music will comfort June...
The Music annoints Junes head with oil and her cup is overflowing....
Surely goodness and love will follow June all the days or her life, for she will dwell in the house of the Lord forever..........
That, June is the Word of God...... Psalm 23....
June God is often heard as a still small voice.
Oh my gosh! June's got to say, this is the most creative use of metaphor (see above) that June's seen in a long time!Nay, you're a genius!
In reading what you have all said, June understands that you all seem to possess something that for her remains incomprehensible. June does not mean incomprehensible on an intellectual level; rather, June is referring to a spiritual level. June is caught in the mindset of comprehending collective religious experience as being just that: a more or less universal trait which human beings, in having the capacity for spirituality, experience the sacred.
Perhaps for June, the difficulty lies in defining the "sacred." But even before that, there exists the difficulty of truly having the capacity for receptivity, along with the even more difficult task of self-validation within the context of one's "experience." In other words, if June suddenly declared herself an agnostic tomorrow, , how would she possibly know that her experience = the Christian God?
--And as I just wrote that last sentence, a flock of geese flew over my house, again...
What a coincidence...
Perhaps the music is inter-related to all the bands after all...?
The Old Testament tells about the prophet Elijah and an incident that occurred when he was fleeing from Ahab and Jezebel after they had threatened his life. Elijah travelled a day's journey, then he sat under a tree and wished to die. An angel was sent to Elijah and told him to eat, so Elijah ate and drank then laid back down. A second time, the angel told him to eat. Elijah again ate and drank. Refreshed and strengthened, Elijah travelled another 40 days until he reached Mount Horeb. This is where the story gets interesting!
Elijah sought refuge in a cave on the mountain of God. While he was resting for the evening, the word of the Lord came to him. After a brief exchange, the Lord told Elijah, "Go out and stand on the mountain before the Lord."
And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.
So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him, and said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”
June, are you looking for some exciting event to convince you of God's existence? He's not to be found in the wind, earthquake, or fire. In fact, those events tend to frighten people away rather than draw them closer to God. Elijah didn't go to the entrance to the cave until all the excitement was over. That's when Elijah heard the still small voice, the gentle whisper. It was only after hearing the voice that Elijah went to the entrance of the cave, and it was only after going to the cave's entrance that he heard the Lord's instruction.
Jesus likened himself to a shepherd. He said that his sheep recognize his voice. I believe Jesus is calling everyone, but his voice is drowned out by the events in our lives. Non-Christians can't hear him through the noise of the wind, earthquake, and fire in their lives. Yet, he's still calling. Perhaps you need to put away all the distractions (job, education, pride, stubbornness, self-sufficiency, philosophy, voices of other people, etc.) and listen for God's gentle whisper.
Read the Bible and listen for his voice. The book of John has the story of the Good Shepherd. It also talks about a gate, a vine, bread, and other things that might appeal to the poet in June. You can also find God in the Psalms--more poetry! Actually, you can find God/Jesus throughout the entire Bible; however, you must be still enough to hear his gentle voice. He's promised that if you seek him, you will find him. Once you find him, you will KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt.
The Bible invites you to drink of the Living Water (Jesus) and eat of his word (the Bible). You'll need both the water and food to sustain you on your journey, just as Elijah needed both food and water to gain the strength for his journey.
-------
Yes, June, I firmly believe I would still know God even if I'd been born in Tibet. The extraneous noise might have been louder, but God would have still been calling me. He has put the truth in the human heart, and he has confirmed it through his creation and history. The Shepherd would have known when the noise was quiet enough for me to hear His voice, just like I know when the street noise is quiet enough that my dogs will hear my voice when I call them. Just like my dogs, though, I would have to choose whether or not I want to respond when I hear my Master's voice. Since I responded to God's voice while living in the U.S., I believe I would have responded to his voice if I lived elsewhere. After all, I responded to his voice even though I lived in a non-Christian household.
Beautiful! Thank you for this....
EDIT:
I posted this before I read the rest of your posts, and Nay's . How I wish I were as apt with thoughts as the 2 of you! You are both so poetic, and your posts are all beautiful. I am just a plain 'no nonsense' ( no offence meant) speaker/writer.
Keep on keeping on. You are bring read.
After going back and seeing how little I have posted here, I decided I need to add more.
I have been aware of the existence of God ever since I was a small child. When I was out in the neighbor's meadow searching for, and picking wild flowers, I felt the presence of God. When I look at a rainbow...I feel the presence of God. When I hear thunder, I hear God.
I grew up in a home were God was seldom mentioned, and when He was, it was ususally my dear mother blaming Him for all her hardships. My first experience with hearing the word of God was at a vacation bible school that was held nearby...near enough that I could walk there. I have no idea who was putting it on. There is no memory of the experience for me, other than the fact that I went. Then, when I was a pre-teen I found a little black bible ( I don't even remember where I found it ,( maybe in a dresser drawer). I was drawn to it , but was embarressed/ afraid to be seen reading it, so I would read it in bed, and hide it if someone came in the room. The book of Revelation terrified me!
At the age of seventeen I got married. The family that I married into went to a Pentecostal church. Their ways did not 'agree' with me ( neither the church, or the family). We. my dh and I rarely went. He went into the army soon after we were married. He was based in Germany. I was living in a small town. I decided to attend the church that my grandmother attended ( not that one there). It was a Presbyterian church. After being there awhile, and singing in the choir ( first soprano) , ( my chior leader was also my chorus teacher in High School...[I was attending at that time]. But I digress! ). The church leaders decided I was ready to be baptized, They scheduled that to take place along with an infant! We were both sprinkled. I had read the scriptures enough to know that was not scriptural. I do not recall how long I remained there, but it wasn't long as I moved elsewhere.
Meanwhile, my soldier Dh came home, and drank to excess, abused me, and committed adultery constantly. I finally got my fill of that and left him (after getting a damaged knee and a fist in the mouth....but that is another story). It just happed that a former army friend from his Germany tour, was visiting us. He assisted me in my moving back to my folk's home. I ended up marrying him. (He is my DH of 51 years now).
When I was in my 30s, I went with my female relatives and young son, to visit my brother in another state. While I was gone, my DH visited the local church of Christ due to a cousin's request. ( DH was raised a Missionary Baptist, but was not active). He was so impressed by the preacher's sermon, that he told me, on my return...." You need to hear that man preach" ( or something like that). We went that coming sunday A.M. , I agreed, his speaking was special. The second time there, we were in the process of partaking of the Lord's supper when I realized I was not worthy!. When the invitation was given I responded. We were both baptized into Christ that day! We have remained faithful since. That was 41 and 1/2 years ago.
I just knew.....as I knew the Sun would rise every day......as I knew The ocean would never stop moving...
you dont actually have to figure it all out now.....
I knew at a young age..........but I didnt know what to do with knowing............
at age 12 I prayed to ask Jesus into my heart ( funny cuz I didnt know he was not there)
but I wanted to make sure.......and then I still did not know what to do............with knowing..........
I was 17 when we moved away....to the lovely desertish SoCal......
We started to go to church.....I picked out a Bible, one that was "mine", not one from around the house.......
As I read....I had no clue what I was reading, or what it meant....only that I had to read it (compelled, drawn to it, the Holy Spirits intervention).....
As I read I used a highlighter to highlight everything sounding 'good to me'..........
I have more color in my Bible than ever had anywhere else...
Point is ....if you are willing....and if you want......start there.....
also ask Holy Spirt of God to guide you.....
I know you've done it before...but if you want ...try this way....
2 words of advice often given to me:
1) "nay, you think too much...just relax and enjoy life" from dad
2) " dont go on feelings" their always changing and not often solid.
still women are emotional beings and my brain works so fast...
I like to think I am sooooo smart that I actually think faster than everyone else and on the track I actually "lap" them...only I end up looking slow and stupid....:-)
xoxoxoxo
I know you've done it before...but if you want ...try this way....
2 words of advice often given to me:
1) "nay, you think too much...just relax and enjoy life" from dad
2) " dont go on feelings" their always changing and not often solid.
still women are emotional beings and my brain works so fast...
I like to think I am sooooo smart that I actually think faster than everyone else and on the track I actually "lap" them...only I end up looking slow and stupid....:-)
xoxoxoxo
You, dear nay, are anything but slow and stupid! June is telling you: don't be silly. Listen to June. Sometimes she knows of what she says. Regarding your advice, above:
(1) Sometimes, June does think alot. She's simply prone to it. She sort of likes the fact that she is that way. However, make no mistake: June also knows when, where, and how to turn her brain/mind off and just live. Just be. Not bother with thought or over-thinking. That's a good thing.
(2) June gets the point around feelings. June understands emotions fairly well, which is probably a good thing, otherwise her patients would probably stone her to death. (Actually, come to think of it, there is one who June suspects enjoys tormenting her, but that's not something to get into here.)
The point is, while June can see her way clear to pretty much believing in, and knowing that human beings are spiritual beings, it all boils down to the fact that she simply can't fathom going from A to Z. She can't comprehend "religous experience" with = Christian God/Jesus. She can comprehend one, but not the other, and the connection between the two. (Connecting the music with the band.) Sadly, perhaps she never will...
June will say this much, though: I genuinelly admire all of you, I truly do. I think I am somewhat in awe of the fact that people can truly know that there is a God, and that God is the Christian God. That amazes me as much as it perplexes me. --But it's something that I admire, and stand in awe of you all, nonetheless...
Happy Sunday morning, all!
Take gentle care.
P.S. Nay, I will take your advice. June is nothing if not open to all that is...
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June is, (on the other hand) on quite good terms with solitude. --Meaning that June lives a happy, content, and above all quiet life. It's a good thing.
June is not sure that she hears any "still small voices" at all.
and hmmmm... I could read the first chapter of John from now until the sky falls in, but I don't get it...I'm sorry. I just don't. --Which isn't to say I wouldn't like to.
She can comprehend one, but not the other, and the connection between the two. (Connecting the music with the band.) Sadly, perhaps she never will...
