Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well I did not call you any names so.. oh well.. you have proven my point to all who read this posting, you prove you do not know the Word of God because you made a statement that the Bible says christains sin or continue to sin and can not back up what you said with one single verse in the bible. Can anyone else show where the Bible teaches we cannot overcome, were it is OK to continue in sin and just say your sorry, that it is impossible to cease for all known sin?
Seems to be a lot of that teaching around here, show me the verses and precepts from the Bible to that teaching.
Mt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
If this sin cannot be commited why does the Bible warn of it happening?
Mt 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times.
If Peter didn't sin and or know he would sin again why did he ask Jesus this question?
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Ro 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Ro 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Does this say we will NEVER sin? No it says we won't SERVE sin.
Ro 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
Ga 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Who's the 'we' mentioned here?
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
If a Christian didn't occassionally get angry why does Paul say, "don't let the sun go down on your wrath?"
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Is Timothy speaking of unbelievers or believers here?
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest *any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Who's the 'any of you?'
Heb 10:26 For if we sin *wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
I confess I got angry this A.M and raised my voice. I didn't do it willfully it just happened. NOW, are you, Harold, and Donna going to tell me you NEVER lose your cool. Honestly?
You haven't lately stubbed your toe or hurt your hand and didn't accidently say a cuss word? Come on...are you PERFECT?
Mt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
If this sin cannot be commited why does the Bible warn of it happening?
Mt 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times.
If Peter didn't sin and or know he would sin again why did he ask Jesus this question?
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Ro 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Ro 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Does this say we will NEVER sin? No it says we won't SERVE sin.
Ro 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
Ga 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Who's the 'we' mentioned here?
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
If a Christian didn't occassionally get angry why does Paul say, "don't let the sun go down on your wrath?"
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
Is Timothy speaking of unbelievers or believers here?
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest *any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Who's the 'any of you?'
Heb 10:26 For if we sin *wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
I confess I got angry this A.M and raised my voice. I didn't do it willfully it just happened. NOW, are you, Harold, and Donna going to tell me you NEVER lose your cool. Honestly?
You haven't lately stubbed your toe or hurt your hand and didn't accidently say a cuss word? Come on...are you PERFECT?
I guess there just are no verses that state christians will continue to sin.. it seems here we are told to stop the sin, we are warned to not sin, just as I am warning all to not sin. Be angry and sin not, raising ones voice is not sin, being angry is not sin..
Grammjr can you be more clear on your position about Christians sinning.
As posted many times, the truly born again child of God is not allowed to sin or succumb to temptation and if he does, he is dead, there is no sacrifice for his sin and he will parish. the Bible tells me so.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remained no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Now these verse really require no interpretation, they are very clear and plain, so ANY other verse that says we have an advocate or if one sins a sin not unto death or any other admonition against sin MUST line up with these verses, because these are very clear that if you know and have tasted and sin your dead, so all those other verses need to be looked in the light of these for proper understanding.
So my possition is I actually believe the Bible, ALL of it.
As posted many times, the truly born again child of God is not allowed to sin or succumb to temptation and if he does, he is dead, there is no sacrifice for his sin and he will parish. the Bible tells me so.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remained no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Now these verse really require no interpretation, they are very clear and plain, so ANY other verse that says we have an advocate or if one sins a sin not unto death or any other admonition against sin MUST line up with these verses, because these are very clear that if you know and have tasted and sin your dead, so all those other verses need to be looked in the light of these for proper understanding.
So my possition is I actually believe the Bible, ALL of it.
Quote:
Now these verse really require no interpretation, they are very clear and plain, so ANY other verse that says we have an advocate or if one sins a sin not unto death or any other admonition against sin MUST line up with these verses, because these are very clear that if you know and have tasted and sin your dead, so all those other verses need to be looked in the light of these for proper understanding.
Okay first things first....
Quote:
Now these verse really require no interpretation, they are very clear and plain
Actually these verses do need to be intrepreted. All of the Word needs to be 'rightly divided.' These passages are no exception.
Instead of starting with v. 4 let's begin with v. 1:
Hebrews 6:1 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; notlaying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,"
What is this verse telling us? Note is says we are to leave (behind) the basic principles of 'the doctrine of Christ.' What is the doctrine of Christ? Verse 2 tells us:
Hebrews 6:2 "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
Okay, continuing. What else does v. 1 tell us? "Let us go unto *perfection." Remembering that the word perfect/perfection in the Greek means 'mature' we see we are to 'grow up.' What does that mean? It means to move ahead, study deeper, get into the 'meat' of the Word. Leave behind the 'milk' of the Word. Study and become 'mature' in the Word.
With that thought in mind let's look at the first v. you quoted:
Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were *once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,"
This verse is intrepreted incorrectly by many well meaning people. What does it mean to be 'once enlightened'?
It means you have studied (with the help of the Holy Spirit) the deeper things in the Bible and have come to understand them.
Hebrews 6:5 "And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,"
Two things here. Tasted of the good word means understanding the deeper things, and 'powers of the world to come' means the next 'age.'
Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame."
This verse doesn't mean what you are trying to make it mean. It means if you have studied the deeper things, the Holy Spirit has given you wisdom/knowledge to understand them and THEN you go back again to the things mentioned in v.2, you are snubbing your nose at God and putting Him to shame.
Now for the other vs. you posted:
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Again this verse doesn't mean what you are implying.
Note it says, 'recieved the knowledge of the truth.' This is again referring to those who leave behind the basics and study the meat of the Word, and willfully turn their back on what they've learned.
Hebrews 10:27 "But a certain fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation which shall devour *the adversaries."
Whos's going to be judged here. Christians or the adversaries?
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:"
Those that broke Moses' law received their punishment for their deed by word of two or three witnesses.
Hebrews 10:29 "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith He was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
Again this speaks of those who who are 'worthy,' those who studied, studied and studied and then turned their back on it.
Actually these verses do need to be intrepreted. All of the Word needs to be 'rightly divided.' These passages are no exception.
Instead of starting with v. 4 let's begin with v. 1:
Hebrews 6:1 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; notlaying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,"
What is this verse telling us? Note is says we are to leave (behind) the basic principles of 'the doctrine of Christ.' What is the doctrine of Christ? Verse 2 tells us:
Hebrews 6:2 "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
Okay, continuing. What else does v. 1 tell us? "Let us go unto *perfection." Remembering that the word perfect/perfection in the Greek means 'mature' we see we are to 'grow up.' What does that mean? It means to move ahead, study deeper, get into the 'meat' of the Word. Leave behind the 'milk' of the Word. Study and become 'mature' in the Word.
With that thought in mind let's look at the first v. you quoted:
Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were *once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,"
This verse is intrepreted incorrectly by many well meaning people. What does it mean to be 'once enlightened'?
It means you have studied (with the help of the Holy Spirit) the deeper things in the Bible and have come to understand them.
Hebrews 6:5 "And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,"
Two things here. Tasted of the good word means understanding the deeper things, and 'powers of the world to come' means the next 'age.'
Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame."
This verse doesn't mean what you are trying to make it mean. It means if you have studied the deeper things, the Holy Spirit has given you wisdom/knowledge to understand them and THEN you go back again to the things mentioned in v.2, you are snubbing your nose at God and putting Him to shame.
Now for the other vs. you posted:
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Again this verse doesn't mean what you are implying.
Note it says, 'recieved the knowledge of the truth.' This is again referring to those who leave behind the basics and study the meat of the Word, and willfully turn their back on what they've learned.
Hebrews 10:27 "But a certain fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation which shall devour *the adversaries."
Whos's going to be judged here. Christians or the adversaries?
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:"
Those that broke Moses' law received their punishment for their deed by word of two or three witnesses.
Hebrews 10:29 "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith He was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
Again this speaks of those who who are 'worthy,' those who studied, studied and studied and then turned their back on it.
Rightly divide the Word of Truth
Man talk about twisting the Word to your destruction, but I do not expect you to hear, I just know it the great day this post will be brought to your attention.
sin willfully only means one thing, that you have broken God's Law even despite the correcting prompting of the HS.. nothing else... but oh well..
OK mzjamiedawn you are up. Post your bible verses that Christians sin and will keep sinning and we will look for the contradictions.
I've never read any scripture that says a believer can or will continue in sin and not be held accountable, on the contrary self professed believers are judged more harshly than those that don't believe.
Man talk about twisting the Word to your destruction, but I do not expect you to hear, I just know it the great day this post will be brought to your attention.
sin willfully only means one thing, that you have broken God's Law even despite the correcting prompting of the HS.. nothing else... but oh well..
Quote:
Man talk about twisting the Word to your destruction, but I do not expect you to hear, I just know it the great day this post will be brought to your attention.
I'm not at all surprised by your remark. That's a common reaction when someone encounters the truth for the first time.
While I agree with you that the 'easy believism' being taught in many churches ( just say you 'believe' etc etc) is VERY wrong. To teach that once you are a Christian you NEVER sin is also VERY wrong and puts condemnation on others.
It is a title that only God should give to another. I understand that words get watered down, and definitions blurred, but when it comes to Christ or Christian (Annointed with Light) it is a term worth keeping Holy.
Quote:
And as far as becoming perfect. I will say again for the 3rd time (in other posts) the word perfect in the Greek means mature! Am I a more mature Christian then I was 30 yrs ago. I better had be or I might as well just 'throw in the towel.' But will I ever be perfect (the English definition of the word), as much as I wish I could say "I sure am!!" I have to be honest and give a resounding NO! I'm human. My flesh causes me to sin.
In the Aramaic (Jesus' language) it means without spot, or blemish (no sin). Like God, Like Jesus.
If you prefer Mature, that is your perogative, but if we are to be Mature like our Father in Heaven, then i think that is profound as well, and can be interpretted as sinless. For certainly the maturity of God is without blemish.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
If we are not as our Master, then we are not Mature, and therefore fallen short of what He desires of us.
godspeed,
freedom
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
