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I swear everytime I talk to universalists I create more of these clarification threads because they can be so vague with their theology (THIS IS AN ESSENTIAL DOCTRINE OF CHRISTIANITY)
We are justified, declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation. Justification does not make us righteous, but rather pronounces us righteous. Our righteousness comes from placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.
(Romans 5:18-19) “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.”
It is because of justification that the peace of God can rule in our lives. It is because of justification that believers can have assurance of salvation. It is the fact of justification that enables God to begin the process of sanctification—the process by which God makes us in reality what we already are positionally.
(Romans 5:1) “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ”
(Romans 3:21-26) “But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.”
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 07-28-2009 at 03:10 PM..
I swear everytime I talk to universalists I create more of these clarification threads because they can be so vague with their theology (THIS IS AN ESSENTIAL DOCTRINE OF CHRISTIANITY)
We are justified, declared righteous, at the moment of our salvation. Justification does not make us righteous, but rather pronounces us righteous. Our righteousness comes from placing our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ.
(Romans 5:18-19) “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.”
It is because of justification that the peace of God can rule in our lives. It is because of justification that believers can have assurance of salvation. It is the fact of justification that enables God to begin the process of sanctification—the process by which God makes us in reality what we already are positionally.
(Romans 5:1) “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ”
(Romans 3:21-26) “But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.”
I'm not sure what your referring to here. I don't understand how it deals specifically with universalists. In another place it is written that our faith is counted as righteousness. Are you questioning then how could those who do not have faith in this life in this world be saved? Our justification that is NOW in THIS life counted as righteousness is aionios zoe(life pertaining to the ages). It is by election that we are made righteous now through our faith and evident in our good works that has wrought in us to will and do of HIS good pleasure. Those who do not have a relationship with Christ do not have life pertaining to the ages in that they are not indwelt by the holy spirit of Christ and do not know him or the father that sent him. They are in correction pertaining to the ages(aionios kolasis). They are at this time apollymi(lost/dead) in the spirit and will not know life until the fullness of the ages, when the age of ages is come. Then they shall be saved, yet so as by Fire at the judgment. At that time they will be made to know God, and they will bow before him and swear allegiance, and will speak his name and worship to the glory of the father.
I'm not sure what your referring to here. I don't understand how it deals specifically with universalists. In another place it is written that our faith is counted as righteousness. Are you questioning then how could those who do not have faith in this life in this world be saved? Our justification that is NOW in THIS life counted as righteousness is aionios zoe(life pertaining to the ages). It is by election that we are made righteous now through our faith and evident in our good works that has wrought in us to will and do of HIS good pleasure. Those who do not have a relationship with Christ do not have life pertaining to the ages in that they are not indwelt by the holy spirit of Christ and do not know him or the father that sent him. They are in correction pertaining to the ages(aionios kolasis). They are at this time apollymi(lost/dead) in the spirit and will not know life until the fullness of the ages, when the age of ages is come. Then they shall be saved, yet so as by Fire at the judgment. At that time they will be made to know God, and they will bow before him and swear allegiance, and will speak his name and worship to the glory of the father.
"Swear allegiance/ worship"???? where is that? Bowing before God doesn't make them righteous. They should bow since He comes to rule with an iron rod; they have no choice but to bow.
Believers will bow in love, unbelievers will bow in fear and trembling.
"Swear allegiance/ worship"???? where is that? Bowing before God doesn't make them righteous. They should bow since He comes to rule with an iron rod; they have no choice but to bow.
Believers will bow in love, unbelievers will bow in fear and trembling.
Is there any instance in the bible of unbelievers bowing in fear and trembling, if God is how the church portays him i would run and hide and if God is how the church portays Him , He would find me in my hiding place and drag me out kicking and screaming. Sounds like Nazi Germany to me.
Is there any instance in the bible of unbelievers bowing in fear and trembling, if God is how the church portays him i would run and hide and if God is how the church portays Him , He would find me in my hiding place and drag me out kicking and screaming. Sounds like Nazi Germany to me.
Just because you don't like that God the church portrays is irrelevant. The question still remains, IS IT TRUE? You don't like it, fine but don't perpetrate that there isn't evidence to the contray
Revelation 19:15
"Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty."
Revelation 19:11 (NIV)
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.
Hebrews 10:30–31 (NIV)
30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
“There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heaven…a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.”
Daniel 9:26 (NIV)
26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
Matthew 24:6–8
“You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.”
John 2:15–17 (NIV)
15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market!”
.
Deuteronomy 7:10 (NIV)
10 But
those who hate him he will repay to their face by destruction;
he will not be slow to repay to their face those who hate him.
1 Thessalonians 5:3 (NIV)
3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
Numbers 21:3 (NIV)
3 The Lord listened to Israel’s plea and gave the Canaanites over to them. They completely destroyed them and their towns; so the place was named Hormah.
Numbers 31:1–7 (NIV)
31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”
3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4 Send
...
Joshua 8:1–8 (NIV)
8 Then the Lord said to Joshua, “Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. Take the whole army with you, and go up and attack Ai. For I have delivered into your hands the king of Ai, his people, his city and his land. 2 You shall do to Ai and its king as you did to Jericho and
...
Joshua 10:29–32 (NIV)
29 Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Makkedah to Libnah and attacked it. 30 The Lord also gave that city and its king into Israel’s hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there. And he did to its king as he had done to
...
Joshua 11:7–20 (NIV)
7 So Joshua and his whole army came against them suddenly at the Waters of Merom and attacked them, 8 and the Lord gave them into the hand of Israel. They defeated them and pursued them all the way to Greater Sidon, to Misrephoth Maim, and to the Valley of Mizpah on the east,
...
Not one of those verses tells us the unbeliever will bow in fear and trembling.All it tells me is you would rather portray God as a Storm Trooper than Jesus being the express image of God . The same Jesus who said i will draw all men unto me, the same Jesus who all will bow the knee and confess freely that He is Lord.
Not one of those verses tells us the unbeliever will bow in fear and trembling.All it tells me is you would rather portray God as a Storm Trooper than Jesus being the express image of God . The same Jesus who said i will draw all men unto me, the same Jesus who all will bow the knee and confess freely that He is Lord.
You said, you don't like the God the church portrays. I said, tough because there is evidence. They did not make it up as you are alluding to. Furthermore it says nothing about unbelievers swearing allegiance and worshiping God either. They bow, that's it; doesn't make them righteous just conquered, same way a conquered king bows before the victor. Does he now love the king?
You said, you don't like the God the church portrays. I said, tough because there is evidence. They did not make it up as you are alluding to. furthermore it says nothing about unbelievers swearing allegiance and worshiping God either.
The good news of the gospel is ALL about JESUS , not God destroying Egyptians,Midianites,the ground opening up beneath, floods and famines.
Can you not see why the gospel of the church is rejected.
The gospel of the church is one of Judgement, threats and put downs.
A gentle answer turns away wrath a harsh word stirreth up anger.
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
This truelly is good news beyond our wildest imaginations
We are ambassadors of good news not bad news.
We know for a fact that ALL will bow and confess Jesus Christ as Lord, if you want to slander the character of God by saying He is going to force by fear the lost to bow and confess , i hope you can live with that, because this is not the God i know and whom i trust in.
God reckons the elect righteous, yes that is Justification..the elect are justified before God, declared righteous by the blood of and obedience of Jesus christ..
rom 5:
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
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