Are some natives in denial about Cincy being a big city? (Cincinnati: real estate, neighborhoods)

[kjbrill]

Too bad, it is a great place to raise a family. Call it bland, boring, sterile, whatever, it is exactly what these people want. Where I live a great deal of people's energy, time, and money is focused on their kids. This is evidenced by the proliferation of youth athletic leagues all over the place. They will mortgage their future, their property, and their daily lives for the kids.

So maybe the daily bar scene, with people making insincere small talk trying to fill their time, is not the focal point of the neighborhood. But I fail to see where this equates either to disdain for the City or a small-town attitude.

Cincinnati does have a long and strong association with the arts and cultural pursuits, thanks in a large part to contributions from our wealthy. But over and over a few like SCPA is cited. Yes it is a great school, but one school (two if you through in Walnut Hills) does not a healthy and vibant school district make. Other arts institutions, like the Ciincinnati Symphony, have been struggling in recent years due to reduced attendance.

Before you take the proverbial broad brush to paint a picture of what Cincinnatians believe are the things to be valued in life, you had better look at the entire metro region. The City proper has lost residential ground, mainly due to the inefficiences and inept practices of its city government, schools, and just about everything else. Those who want to label Cincinnatians as backward, provincial, anti-change, etc. are the same who want to spend someone else's money to move forward. If you are so committed to what Cincinnati can be, then put your financial future on the line to achieve it.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Other arts institutions, like the Ciincinnati Symphony, have been struggling in recent years due to reduced attendance.

The CSO is actually doing really well.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by progmac

The CSO is actually doing really well.

Please read between the lines - cost control! Do you know of any organization where this does not mean cutting salaries and programs? They have managed to not be in a deficit, and that is good. But please note the increase in contributions is a major factor to their solvency. It is far from a rosey situation.

[buckeyenative01]

From the outside looking in, Cincinnati is a big city that fights such a distinction tooth and nail.

Personally, I'd chalk it up to the fact that the city could be divided into three areas, each of which hate the others: East, West and Northern Kentucky. Sort of like a miniature version of regional boosterism.

[restorationconsultant]

I think it depend on what "Cincinnati' means to you geographically. The 'city' proper had been in terms of population in decline for over 80 years losing some 30,000 in just the last 10 years. That means it is really, a "small city", and it is unfortunately ,governed as such. Council is still elected totally 'at-large' some neighborhoods are over/underepresented, this makes 'big picture' ideas hard to sell, and at the neighborhood level it makes it harder to get things done (unless you have a few people from your neighborhood on council).

However, if you look at Cincinnati as a "metro area" you have a different story. It is a large population center with a vibrant economy.

There is the rub. Unlike a city like Indianapolis which went to a unigov city/county government decades ago, and has largely turned around. The "control" of Cincinnati's core, the city government, holds it back. It still pays its council people a ridiculous full time salary and they each have a full time staff. The pension system is a drain on resources too The city government is still run much like it was 75 years ago. It is top heavy staff wise and you could easily run this city with 60 percent of the employees you have now and it would run smoother.

Now , of course, the logical solution is a combined city-county government, but as it is "State border" cut off with Kentucky (Newport,Covington) being in another state, it make metropolitan/regional type decisons more difficult. Also I don't know if the 'suburban' county communities want to take on Cincinnati "welfare mentality" and its problems, but ultimately a county wide government will result in a more prosperous region

In many ways Cincinnati city government, is its own worst enemy.

Will they relinquish their power for a county government? Not yet, but as the demographic changes occur and more 'non-Cincinnatians' more in , who know how things are supposed to work having come from other cities, you will eventually see a 'hostile takeover' of city government in the next 10 years. It will NOT be pretty.

There is a ground swell developing in the neighborhoods for a representative district type city council so neighborghoods are better represented..I look for a ballot initiative within two years.

That's why I think this city has great potential, it will eventually be brought (kicking and screaming) out of the last century and as such, has great promise.

[kjbrill]

restorationconsultant... I know you are an advocate ot restoring Cincinnati urban residential neighborhoods. And I believe that is a good objective and one which will come to fruitition.

But I agree Cincinnati needs to recognize it is now a small city within a large metropolitan area. They just don't seem to get it. And why would Hamilton Co. agree to merge with the City as a single governmental entity? If I lived in Hamilton Co. I would resist this like the plague. Why take on the problems of Cincinnati in the county as a whole? What can the City offer which is attractive to the county? Cincinnati needs to realize who holds the cards, and they are not it.

Some contend the investment level in Cincinnati says it is moving forward. My contest is look where the innestment level is being made. As I have stated, the CBD of Cincinnati will continue to move forward. The money interests will make this happen. But those of you who contend there are great developmental investments in Cincinnati, particularly downtown, please cite those which are not part of the CBD just protecting their own?

[Sarah Perry]

Restorationconsultant nailed it. Another impediment to merger is Hamilton County's Democrats being largely concentrated within the City of Cincinnati's limits.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

...Those who want to label Cincinnatians as backward, provincial, anti-change, etc. are the same who want to spend someone else's money to move forward. If you are so committed to what Cincinnati can be, then put your financial future on the line to achieve it.

Heh. Believe me, there are times I wish we could go back to a variant of the old system where property owners in a given jurisdiction were the only people allowed to cast a vote on any ballot measures that involve a large portion of funding from property tax. I bet the financial landscape would be different.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Too bad, it is a great place to raise a family. Call it bland, boring, sterile, whatever, it is exactly what these people want. Where I live a great deal of people's energy, time, and money is focused on their kids. This is evidenced by the proliferation of youth athletic leagues all over the place. They will mortgage their future, their property, and their daily lives for the kids.

So maybe the daily bar scene, with people making insincere small talk trying to fill their time, is not the focal point of the neighborhood. But I fail to see where this equates either to disdain for the City or a small-town attitude.

Cincinnati does have a long and strong association with the arts and cultural pursuits, thanks in a large part to contributions from our wealthy. But over and over a few like SCPA is cited. Yes it is a great school, but one school (two if you through in Walnut Hills) does not a healthy and vibant school district make. Other arts institutions, like the Ciincinnati Symphony, have been struggling in recent years due to reduced attendance.

Before you take the proverbial broad brush to paint a picture of what Cincinnatians believe are the things to be valued in life, you had better look at the entire metro region. The City proper has lost residential ground, mainly due to the inefficiences and inept practices of its city government, schools, and just about everything else. Those who want to label Cincinnatians as backward, provincial, anti-change, etc. are the same who want to spend someone else's money to move forward. If you are so committed to what Cincinnati can be, then put your financial future on the line to achieve it.

Woah, Easy there!

I in no way tried to label ANYONE as being backward, provincial, or anti-change, not in the least bit!

I was in no way suggesting that ANYONE spend money on ANYTHING.

And I was in no way suggesting that suburbs are inferior, or that living or having communities that are great for raising families.

However I was suggesting a couple things:

There are great suburban communities that are great for raising kids EVERYWHERE. Those communities as great as they are, are sort of a dime a dozen can be found in every metropolitan area and and every state.

I don't want to put down anyones love for living in an awesome community with great homes, especially if they worked hard to live there. But from a geographical standpoint, they are like I said a dime a dozen and are found in every metro area. Because well . . . there is universal demand for that.

Second: Most cities, even cities that are considered to be major tourist draws, cities everyone loves to visit have lost people to the suburbs and beyond and a crappy school district. Even as an urban core gentrifies, the population would go down, because it mostly attracts younger singles, as well as empty nesters, who haven't moved into the city for the schools because they don't have kids.

Yet, many, and I'm sure even many in Cincinnati, who prefer living in the suburbs where there are great schools, still can and do beam with pride over the cultural assets of their urban core.

So, all I was doing, is . . . paying a compliment. That Cincinnati is unique and special. Not that anything needs to change, not that anyone needs to spend money on this or that. That its a cool place. Thats it.

One can prefer to live in the suburbs, and still think that the city they surround is a cool city and a good place for young single adults. The two are not mutually exclusive. Family-oriented suburbs are everywhere, but an urban core that has what Cincinnati has is not found everywhere. And being proud of both is great.

[Matthew Hall]

To blame cincinnati for the lack or regionalism in the cincinnati area is one-sided. Suburban govn't have actually worked against the interests of cincinnati. This has forced cincinnati to look out for itself. Only when Cincinnati has something other areas want, will they enter into cooperative arrangments with cincinnati. Cincinnati is doing that by focusing on the highest paying employers and luring most of the social and cultural activities into cincinnati. As these have become more and more successful, suburban areas suddenly care about access to them. There are now parents lying that they are residents of cincinnati to get their kids into walnut hills, scpa, clark montessori, even some of the magnet elementaries. Ticket taxes and increased parking fees downtown, and local payroll taxes have not scared suburbanites away, they have just forced them to pay more to have access to the best jobs, and social and cultural opportunties of the region. They could have supported these all along and had more influence on the the mutually beneficial development of the region, but they didn't. Now they have to take what Cincinnati has to offer at the prices that cincinnati is asking for them or travel to distant cities to have access to these things. Expect these trends to only continue in the future. this isn't the best way to build a metro economy, but the suburban interests left Cincinnati with little choice.