The desirability of Cincinnati's northern suburbs (Dayton, Hamilton: real estate, HOA, insurance)

[Coseau]

The suburbs main function is to serve as a giant nursery for underage minors. That is why suburbs are so pedestrian unfriendly as to limit freedom of movement for underage minors. The cul-de-sac street design, no sidewalks, and lack of mass transit keeps underage minors limited in things they can do without the support of an adult to ferry them to the desired destination. Based on this the northern suburbs will always be desirable to the parents with minors demographic group because the car dependence aspect of suburbs serves the same function as the fence or gate in a gated community giving parents a sense of safety. Image as a teen stuck in a sterile boring environment in all aspects not that far removed from rural living and you can see why the cities perceived to be happening are getting overran by young adults once they get the chance to escape. The northern suburbs will not be desirable to young adults, child free adults and to some empty nesters as they will not have the same incentive as parents of minors to tolerate pedestrian unfriendliness, traffic congestion, long commute times to work, non existent street vibrancy and dependency on cars for the minutest daily need.

[woxyroxme]

Originally Posted by swessel4

There's no doubt that butler/warren county have kind of evolved into their own self-perpuating world nearly liberated from Cincinnati.

They have always been "liberated" from Cincinnati and always will be. Believe it or not we have our own county commissioners, our own county sheriffs, etc. Local autonomy - what a concept.

[Coseau]

Originally Posted by Coseau

The suburbs main function is to serve as a giant nursery for underage minors. That is why suburbs are so pedestrian unfriendly as to limit freedom of movement for underage minors. The cul-de-sac street design, no sidewalks, and lack of mass transit keeps underage minors limited in things they can do without the support of an adult to ferry them to the desired destination. Based on this the northern suburbs will always be desirable to the parents with minors demographic group because the car dependence aspect of suburbs serves the same function as the fence or gate in a gated community giving parents a sense of safety. Imagine as a teen stuck in a sterile boring environment in all aspects not that far removed from rural living and you can see why the cities perceived to be happening are getting overran by young adults once they get the chance to escape. The northern suburbs will not be desirable to young adults, child free adults and to some empty nesters as they will not have the same incentive as parents of minors to tolerate pedestrian unfriendliness, traffic congestion, long commute times to work, non existent street vibrancy and dependency on cars for the minutest daily need.

Typo. Image was meant to be imagine.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by restorationconsultant

Its a toss up but I am having less and less faith everyday that Cincinnati can govern itself in a responsible way.

If you are really interested in studying this long term , look for growth in 'small towns' within striking distance of the city and suburban cores as there seems to be a movement by more and more to head to "small town USA" and do a longer commute to their city or suburban destination.

Having compared Cincinnati's 9-member-at-large-full-time-plus-a-meddling-mayor system to other cities, well, it's pretty strange. And it's hard to argue that is effective and impossible to argue that it is efficient.

Your second point is interesting. I find places like Newtown, Milford, and the like to be very appealing. I do think the high traffic on the main roads, which is also where all of the interesting buildings and business districts are, does keep these places from truly feeling like small towns.

[CincyIU29]

RC is right. Cincy is really at a make or break point. Of all the factors that may derail everything I have no doubt that a city government under Cranley will be the most likely culprit. Such a shame as there is no reason with our history and architecture we can't evolve into a modern, cosmopolitan city like Portland.

This development will impact the outer ring, but won't be the only factor. Mason will always be fine thanks to it's corporate tax base. The others are relying on the dangerous relationship between tea party politics and continued exponential growth. Expect problems in the communities outside of Mason in the next 10 years as this relationship inevitably sours.

I would agree that these areas are independent of Cincy in almost all respects. Mason is the hub do it will interesting to see how Mason reacts if the areas around it falter.

[progmac]

Originally Posted by Coseau

The suburbs main function is to serve as a giant nursery for underage minors. That is why suburbs are so pedestrian unfriendly as to limit freedom of movement for underage minors. The cul-de-sac street design, no sidewalks, and lack of mass transit keeps underage minors limited in things they can do without the support of an adult to ferry them to the desired destination. Based on this the northern suburbs will always be desirable to the parents with minors demographic group because the car dependence aspect of suburbs serves the same function as the fence or gate in a gated community giving parents a sense of safety. Image as a teen stuck in a sterile boring environment in all aspects not that far removed from rural living and you can see why the cities perceived to be happening are getting overran by young adults once they get the chance to escape. The northern suburbs will not be desirable to young adults, child free adults and to some empty nesters as they will not have the same incentive as parents of minors to tolerate pedestrian unfriendliness, traffic congestion, long commute times to work, non existent street vibrancy and dependency on cars for the minutest daily need.

"A nursery for minors." That's a new phrase to me, but it speaks to what bothers me the most about not Cincinnati per se, but nearly every american city. We are just so freaking segregated. Single? Oh, you should live here. Married but no kids? Oh, you live over here. Married with kids? Oh, you definitely belong over here? Old? White? Black? Poor? Rich? You belong, here, here, and here.

[Coseau]

Originally Posted by progmac

"A nursery for minors." That's a new phrase to me, but it speaks to what bothers me the most about not Cincinnati per se, but nearly every american city. We are just so freaking segregated. Single? Oh, you should live here. Married but no kids? Oh, you live over here. Married with kids? Oh, you definitely belong over here? Old? White? Black? Poor? Rich? You belong, here, here, and here.

^^^^^I definitely agree with you.

[swessel4]

Originally Posted by woxyroxme

They have always been "liberated" from Cincinnati and always will be. Believe it or not we have our own county commissioners, our own county sheriffs, etc. Local autonomy - what a concept.

Administratively autonomous for sure, but economically only until recently and only in a limited capacity. They were initially developed for their dependence on the city, the classic bedroom communities and garden cities. Only recently have they been "liberated" from the city as job and retail centers.

My point is that present suburbs are modeled on a form that's been in existence for 70 years, going back to the original levittowns. These were not intended as places of work. So now we're stuck with an awkward hybrid of urban issues with suburban forms. Trying to solve the problems of the city by merely spreading them out and planting grass can only function for so long. To me either the suburbs need become more "suburban" in sense of providing better natural environment in an industrial economy and having closer ties to agriculture, or they reformulate into transit-oriented nodes which will require massive transformation of infrastructure, businesses, economy; we will essentially have to build from the ground up to provide transit-oriented development. If people want the lawns and two car garages and what not that's fine. But now that people are now relocating to the suburbs to find work, which includes non-families, perhaps more low-income options should be offered other than living in a subdivision or isolated condominium complex.

[woxyroxme]

Originally Posted by swessel4

Administratively autonomous for sure, but economically only until recently and only in a limited capacity. They were initially developed for their dependence on the city, the classic bedroom communities and garden cities. Only recently have they been "liberated" from the city as job and retail centers.

We had our own job centers back in the 1960s and 70s, they were the farms where the McMansions and strip malls are now.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by swessel4

Administratively autonomous for sure, but economically only until recently and only in a limited capacity. They were initially developed for their dependence on the city, the classic bedroom communities and garden cities. Only recently have they been "liberated" from the city as job and retail centers.

My point is that present suburbs are modeled on a form that's been in existence for 70 years, going back to the original levittowns. These were not intended as places of work. So now we're stuck with an awkward hybrid of urban issues with suburban forms. Trying to solve the problems of the city by merely spreading them out and planting grass can only function for so long. To me either the suburbs need become more "suburban" in sense of providing better natural environment in an industrial economy and having closer ties to agriculture, or they reformulate into transit-oriented nodes which will require massive transformation of infrastructure, businesses, economy; we will essentially have to build from the ground up to provide transit-oriented development. If people want the lawns and two car garages and what not that's fine. But now that people are now relocating to the suburbs to find work, which includes non-families, perhaps more low-income options should be offered other than living in a subdivision or isolated condominium complex.

Twenty or 30 years ago when this general topic had bearing on the work I did, I remember reading a book called "Edge Cities." I don't remember a lot about it, but I think it might address some of the issues you're asking about.