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How can a CSA(the Bay Area) be one of the top Cities. The bay area is three cities, suburbs and all.
If you want to look at it like that then the near future(50 yrs) will look like this.
1.NYC tri-state
2.Southland
3.Chicagoland
4.DMV
5.SoFlo
6.Bay Area
7.Greater Houston
8.Delaware Valley
9.DFW
10. Bostonia
Is the Southland LA/SD
Overall it seems like a pretty good list though but do think both DMV and the Bay area could move ahead of Chicago and LA in 25-30 years
Also on SoFlo - that is also a good point as it matures and becomes more cohesive it will prosper, it is and will continue to be as choesive of the LA/SD or Bay area complex
If DFW and Houston were closer it would be a monster
So Yes I do think the Bay and DMV will continue to become more and more of powerful economic engine. Also the DMV in addition to the gov't is extremely diverse and well educated. I think this is often overlooked when compared to the Bay
No.
I think the Bay Area and DC have a brighter future than Chicago and LA but they're not the most competitive in the country (particularly about taxes) and they're expensive, they can't be have a GDP growth correctly strong to surpass them, LA and Chiicago being more populated.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215
I really don't know how to vote on this one. I see both perhaps overtaking Chicago MSA one day, as they both continue to develop and their CSAs become MSAs. But overtaking LA I don't see happening. The port, entertainment, among other things are just too strong. Plus SD is nearby so that could give it a leg up over DC and Bay Area. Plus, Chicago's economy is a bit more significant than DC and BAy Area. The financial services and agricultural trading that happens influences our nation on an un noticeable way, and I am begininng to realize how influential Chicago is.
So aside from GDP, I think LA and Chicago are just too big and too powerful. The top 3 nationwide are set. But the DC and Bay Area could solidify top 5.
Partially agree.
GDP is a main factor in which both the Bay Area & Washington DC will overtake Chicago. (Washington DC already has by sheer CSA measurements).
As for MSA, they have quite a long way to go before reaching Chicago's MSA GDP and Los Angeles is out of the question for the moment.
Chicago has the most diverse economy in the country, as far as stability goes it will be fine, that is one thing Los Angeles has more to worry about than Chicago does. As that is the switch from GDP lookouts.
But I see Washington DC are a more involved area both politically and economically and it's increasing as such, in which it's prominence is growing. The question for this thread is not necessarily GDP, I have done a poor example at addressing that, but it's the influence these areas can have economically to our country.
Chicago as an area has got it's hand on nearly any kind of industry there is, Los Angeles is massive at what it does.
But the Bay Area, I see that as a place with increasing prominence to more of a revolutionary region as far as technology goes, in which case in modern day that plays a major role. The new advancements in such, cars, cellular devices, internet based operations, advancements in medical technology, and more all those are highly centralized specialties of the Bay Area.
Los Angeles does have a large port of entry, but so does the Bay Area in which the port is actually increasing activity faster rate than Los Angeles is. Hollywood is quite possibly a diminishing influence to technology, IMO.
And Los Angeles still needs to stabilize and expand on their economic diversity more to reach a better cloud of economic weathering- so they don't take a large hit like they have done so right now.
By GDP it is a easy guess, Chicago will eventually step down from where it is, and Los Angeles would slowly increase with a larger output coming from DMV & Bay Area, IMO.
I see more economic influence coming from these three areas in the future: Washington DC-Baltimore/New York City/Bay Area
than the present line up of Chicago/New York City/Los Angeles.
In part GDP only tells one portion of the story, you can take your city of Charlotte as an example, am I correct? Impressive as it is, but would you agree that it doesn't tell the entire story for the economic influence to national stage as many of the other factors in other cities.
I am seeing a lot more economical aspects being intertwined with political aspects in our overall national economy & for us to stay competitive Silicon Valley is a powerhouse to influential and revolutionizing aspects to modern technology. Dare I say, far more relevant to the future than anything coming out of both Chicago & Los Angeles combined, IMO.
Personally, I think DC has already claimed the #2 spot economically; it may not have the raw numbers of LA at this point (and probably never will), but it has passed Chicago....As a Chicagoan who moved to DC about 2yrs ago, the amount of wealth that is in DC is just amazing. Currently, the 4 wealthiest counties in the country are in DC (Fairfax, Montgomery, Loudon, Howard), Fairfax, a county of 1 million, has a median houshold income of $110K, that is just amazing to me.
Im not as familiar with the Bay area, but I know they are in a similar situation as DC, but DMV has a huge advantage having the Federal Gov't.
I have no doubt Chicago will rebound, but I just think DC has cemented its spot as #2.
On TV in LA, all the stations use the moniker "Southland" to refer to the LA CSA. San Diego isn't included in this because Camp Pendelton is blocking development of the region.
We'll see the numbers that the Bureau of Economic Analysis release this year but we SHOULD expect, at some point this decade, the Bay Area and DMV overtake Chicagoland. In fact, as of last year, DMV already went past Chicagoland in terms of GDP.
Combined Statistical Areas by Total Gross Product, 2008
1. New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA CSA $1.434 Trillion
Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT Metro Area $81,389
Kingston, NY Metro Area $4,679
New Haven-Milford, CT Metro Area $37,643
New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA Metro Area $1,264,896
Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, NY Metro Area $21,029
Torrington, CT Micro Area
Trenton-Ewing, NJ Metro Area $24,458
2. Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA CSA $866.095 Billion
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA Metro Area $717,884
Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura, CA Metro Area $35,080
Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA Metro Area $113,080
3. Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV CSA $533.542 Billion
Baltimore-Towson, MD Metro Area $133,012
Lexington Park, MD Micro Area
Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metro Area $395,747
Winchester, VA-WV Metro Area $4,783
4. Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI CSA $526.895 Billion
Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL-IN-WI Metro Area $520,672
Kankakee-Bradley, IL Metro Area $3,094
Michigan City-La Porte, IN Metro Area $3,336
5. San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA CSA $508.418 Billion
Napa, CA Metro Area $7,434
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA Metro Area $310,825
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA Metro Area $146,687
Santa Cruz-Watsonville, CA Metro Area $9,903
Santa Rosa-Petaluma, CA Metro Area $20,229
Vallejo-Fairfield, CA Metro Area $13,340
In the future, we will see if the Federal Government will grow (most likely, yes) so it will only add to the DMV's economic might. As for the Bay Area, the problem is that it COULD end up being like Detroit (being overreliant on one industry) if the Federal Government AND Silicon Valley technicians lose their competitive advantage. There has been some posters in the San Francisco and San Jose forums that already feel like the Bay Area is becoming the "new western end" of the Rust Belt. Of course, that is major hyperbole considering that DESPITE the recession, the Bay Area 's population and GDP is still growing. But, its still somewhat dangerous to become a one-industry area.
Already, LA is entering those kind of dire straits. I fear that there will be some sort of economic freefall if the conditions don't change soon. This is exactly why I hate Hollywood so much, because the City of LA has felt like they can always rely on the Entertainment Industry for stable income DESPITE LA being historically more of a manufacturing and aerospace city. There's no problems, in other words, of chasing companies like Northrup Grumann out, but "we have to protect Warner Brothers at all cost" Good thing that the port still exists.
Interestingly enough, if the Bay Area does manage to add San Joaquin County in its CSA by this census (which is a HUGE possibility), it WILL overtake Chicagoland in terms of GDP.
Bay Area CSA (current): $508.418
Stockton MSA: $19.519 NEW TOTAL: $527.917
But until that happens, it's all conjecture.
However, if current trends HOLD for right now (increasing size of Federal Government, High Tech holding its position in the Bay Area, and modest gains of population growth for both with a stagnating LA economy), they COULD both surpass LA's CSA by 2030-2040. That's still a long time from now, and a lot of things could happen such as;
the world ending in 2012
nuclear holocaust
LA annexing all of California as part of its CSA
East Asian tigers stagnate and decline even further
India and China being able to attain their educated class
Alien invasion wiping us all out
?????
Yeah. This doesn't even take into account the obvious rise of Houston and DFW as competitors. Who knows, they may sprawl into each other by 2040.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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^ By CSA yeah. MSA both DMV & San Francisco- Oakland still have a ways to go before reaching Chicagoland. (At least a while, and even further before Los Angeles MSA)
Anyways, I think people are still putting more emphasis only on GDP lol.
I was hoping for more of a conversation on such thoughts I've had like:
Bay Area stepping up on media control, Yahoo!, Google, etc are all methods and medians for media as well. The Bay Area getting more innovative technology. It's the hub for American innovation in technology.
The influence economically that the Bay Area has on a global stage, BBM banned by Saudi Arabia, and another country. Collaboration with the technological advancements with our countries.
GDP is not a main factor, overtaking a city by GDP is like San Jose overtaking San Francisco in population (which happened). It never tells the real story, if it did, it wouldn't explain how a metropolitan area as large as Los Angeles has such a high unemployment and why it's struggling to stabilize. The same for Chicago.
IMO, I don't see anything globally revolutionizing coming out of Los Angeles & Chicago like what will come out of DMV & Bay Area. Technological advancements and preservation of energy along with politics intertwined with national economics.
Chevron, Apple, Yahoo!, Google, Port activity, all of these things the Bay Area touches.
Lol, I feel like I'm the only one here looking beyond GDP measurements, haha.
I've made this ranking before (NYC, DC, SF) in the top 5 influential cities/metro topics that were popular a while back.
Despite how large LA and Chicago are, I think what matters more is the amount of change they can have on the rest of the world. Most occupations take the role of maintaining certain holding patterns--doing so is incredibly important of course, but none of this is particularly influential unless we talk about collapse. There are a certain occupations whose goal is to institute changes, "progress," of sorts that are massively influential and I think both DC and SF carry well beyond their weight in these categories. DC has a lot to with the federal government and its auxiliaries, of course, who do a lot of top-down decision making.
The Bay Area seems more contentious in some respects, but it as a driver for basic systematic changes in how we do things has been unmatched for a while now. This is more than the large corporations there, but also the culture of incubating and nurturing ideas there from both the private sector, institutes of higher education, and the public sector (by far the largest concentration of US national laboratories). In almost all sectors, the Bay Area has the potential and has sometimes had the effect of creating sea changes in the many sectors it touches such as those that its known for ("techie" stuff in all fields) and those it isn't and are primarily associated with other metros (publishing which is associated with NYC, media with NYC/LA, energy with Houston and DFW, automotive with Detroit). I feel this ability to produce change weighs heavily even in the face of a much larger and more populous metro.
With Chicago, I tried to steer away from GDP. I think it's called CME? Some type of stock exchange or other type of financial service. I honestly don't know much about LAs economy but it has a huge impact on the West Coast, and is also a champion city for the sunbelt. Chicago influences the majority of the midwest, mainly the Great Lakes.
My concern for the Bay Area is will it become Detroit in 50, 60, or 70 years? I'm not sure how far in the future you're looking. But Detroit was a major city for nearly a century, perhaps a little more. But has recently been struggling and now faces stiff competition from Minneapolis in being the number 2 city in the midwest. Nothing against the Bay Area, but just a concern.
Personally, I think DC has already claimed the #2 spot economically; it may not have the raw numbers of LA at this point (and probably never will), but it has passed Chicago....As a Chicagoan who moved to DC about 2yrs ago, the amount of wealth that is in DC is just amazing. Currently, the 4 wealthiest counties in the country are in DC (Fairfax, Montgomery, Loudon, Howard), Fairfax, a county of 1 million, has a median houshold income of $110K, that is just amazing to me.
Im not as familiar with the Bay area, but I know they are in a similar situation as DC, but DMV has a huge advantage having the Federal Gov't.
I have no doubt Chicago will rebound, but I just think DC has cemented its spot as #2.
Income does not equal wealth. I pay very little attention to "median income". Because lets face it, $110K median isn't rich at all. Maybe it's the most uniformly middle or upper-middle class.
Maybe DC has the "highest median income" county but it lags too other cities which key cities when it comes to accumulation of wealth / net worth...i.e. real money.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215
With Chicago, I tried to steer away from GDP. I think it's called CME? Some type of stock exchange or other type of financial service. I honestly don't know much about LAs economy but it has a huge impact on the West Coast, and is also a champion city for the sunbelt. Chicago influences the majority of the midwest, mainly the Great Lakes.
My concern for the Bay Area is will it become Detroit in 50, 60, or 70 years? I'm not sure how far in the future you're looking. But Detroit was a major city for nearly a century, perhaps a little more. But has recently been struggling and now faces stiff competition from Minneapolis in being the number 2 city in the midwest. Nothing against the Bay Area, but just a concern.
It may just be the difference in how the two of us perceive the area.
I know California in general has been a hard hit area economically. But from what Lifeshadower said about other posters drawing lines of connection of Bay Area to Detroit is something I can never believe. No way.
From everything that I can visually see that Bay Area has got it's hands on nearly everything I can think of and it's increasing it's potential in a lot of other sectors as well.
Port activity increasing. Finance it is one of the best cities for that in the country despite trailing New York City & Chicago on that but it is still a top city in that regard and I can see it potentially getting better. It can establish connections with energy, mega influential Chevron is headquartered there in the Bay Area. It is an educational stronghold and that is something only Boston can match in this country. They control the most modern methods of media- I will explain below.
Media how we perceive it is evolving, I can even use my PS3 to surf the net via my flat panel television, YouTube (Google) makes some major bank off that. A lot of technology is evolving, handhelds, cellular devices, all of these things are increasing in popularity and all of them serve one purpose: Getting information faster.
Everyone here uses the internet (obviously) many of us really rely on sites like Yahoo! or Google, and I know that for a fact, I always see people making threads about "this city tops this list" and when I go to the home page for Yahoo! the same thing is the front article news. That is a modern method of media, getting information from one corner of the world to another, one part of the country to another. I do not see that going anywhere, I can see it evolving to become more effective but that is it. Yahoo! is a Bay Area company, and a Bay Area influence, dare I say nothing in Los Angeles in modern times has that same level of media influence. Using the internet or going to see popular flicks at the theater? There are news stations and things of that sort but the internet is a connection every corner of this world is drawing to each other. It's how people can get information from point one to point two.
The presidential election in 2008 a lot of it was broadcasted by YouTube and sponsored by them as well, that is the effectiveness of modern media. In which people would make videos with questions to the candidates of choice to answer. That is the common connection one average man can make to the most influential people on Earth via Bay Area media (stream sites & channeling sites).
Buy a Blu Ray player and it has YouTube already integrated within the system, crazy huh? These things are going everywhere and every corner of the world is hearing about Google or anything else that comes from innovative perspective all brought to you by the Bay Area. IMO that is revolutionizing not only the economy but the world.
iPad anyone? It came out, what do you see now? All these Korean companies and Japanese companies trying to play catch up and out do it, can they out number those sales? Not with the hype the iPad got.
That is like saying Creative Zen versions out did the iPod. Which they tried but could not do.
All these products, from Apple, Adobe, HP, Google, all of these are Bay Area relevant.
IMO the Bay Area will in time control more media strongholds in the future than Los Angeles, modern media can be pressed from innovative technology, revolutionizing gadgets.
Movies are made in 3D but where do most of those animation experts reside? A lot of them are web based designers and creative individuals that do graphics all coming from the Bay Area.
There are so many things in an economical aspect that the Bay Area touches in which I would go on a limb to say is second to none, on par influentially with New York City & Wall Street.
I can look around my bedroom at home and see things that have effective connections to Bay Area, my cell phone, my laptop, my Blu Ray Player, my TV (has internet and Google integrated in), my printer, my iPod, etc...
I can't think of many or at the present moment any industry not represented in the Bay Area, they have their hands on literally everything.
IMO they are among the most influential economic areas in the world, draw parallels to YouKu or any other rip off companies that have tried competing with those.
Everyday life affected by things that do come out of the Bay Area? I would say hell yes, way more than anything coming out of Chicago & Los Angeles combined.
I think on economic relevance Chicago has a great future it has got it's hands on so much and has the most diverse economy in the country, CME & Transportation are epicenters for Chicago like wise Entertainment and Port activities for Los Angeles.
But there is only one place in our country that has it's hands on everything, and literally not just that, it is the birth place to some of the most influential companies in the world and that is the Bay Area. Apple, Google, Adobe, Yahoo!, GAP (the clothing store), CNET, Live Journal, HP, among others-
Check this out for everything headquartered there: List of companies headquartered in San Francisco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bay Area literally has got it's hands on everything you can think of. Any kind of company for any kind of industry.
And on top of that, I cannot name one if any other region of our country if not the world that is more socially involved in the environment and social progression as the Bay Area. That does influence legislation on local, state, & national level. Those trends do appear in other nations that adapt and follow them as well.
Washington DC, ahhhh the place with so much story and stability presently. They have a prosperous economy and they are most effectively one of the highest cities on a rise right now. Politically influential to the world, the power to reel in major investors from other nations and the power to combine politics with economics.
Who signs those checks when it comes to loaning money and bailing out Wall Street or sending money overseas and regulating it? Washington DC does.
IMHO, Bay Area/New York City/DMV are the new Chicago/New York City/Los Angeles.
And this is what I mean when I say, GDP doesn't tell the whole story. Even in your city of Charlotte, Bank of America is an example of something the Bay Area has once touched and still may have a large hand on, I am sure there are still ties to Bay Area from Charlotte.
So IMHO, I do not in anyway shape or form see the Bay Area going down the same road as Detroit. yeah there will be speed bumps here and there, but a place as influential and innovative as that can pull itself out of it.
That is why I am saying Chicago & Los Angeles will both be stepping down from their power and influence (regardless of an overtaking of their GDP) as the Bay Area & DMV will swiftly replace them in a smooth transitional manner. Chicago & Los Angeles have had their heyday. And honestly I just realized I didn't have to include New York City in this thread, LOL it was not the center for any discussion as it has and always will be number one!
And PS- I am not trying to boost Bay Area, well not too much anyways, it's just been the focal point of a lot of influential thoughts lately.
Does anyone else view it the way I do? Or am I alone in this?
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