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U has definitely been historic, but I think Harlem's influence is larger because NYC itself is larger that DC and NYC has always been the nation's overall cultural leader for anybody--black, white or otherwise. We have the "Harlem Renaissance" but as far as I know there is no similar term for the flowering of black culture in DC in the 20s The 20s were also the time when Harlem overtook DC as the big northern city with the greatest black population.
I also think that Harlem gets the nod for more cultural influence because much of the good stuff that happened there was tied to literature and writing, whereas in DC it was mainly just musc. Harlem had both. Are there any great black writers from the DC area from then? I dont know of any. But in NYC you had Langston Hughes, Zora Neale Hurston, James Weldon Johnson Arnaa Bontemps during the Harlem Renaissance, and afterwards Richard Wright, James Baldwin, and Ralph Ellison (though if you want to be technical about it, Ellison lived in Washington Heights, the Manhattan neighborhood just north of Harlem). Add to those folks painters like Romare Bearden and actor/activists like Paul Robeson and I think NYC/Harlem comes out ahead for cultural influence.
Last edited by citylove101; 05-20-2011 at 11:18 AM..
I dont know of any. But in NYC you had Langston Hughes
Langston Hughes lived in DC.
Then DC also had Thurgood Marshall, Alain Locke, and Carter G. Woodson. Then there's Howard University. And Duke Ellington grew up in the area. At the end of the day, U Street holds its own against Harlem in terms of its influence on black culture.
Then DC also had Thurgood Marshall, Alain Locke, and Carter G. Woodson. Then there's Howard University. And Duke Ellington grew up in the area. At the end of the day, U Street holds its own against Harlem in terms of its influence on black culture.
Uhm hate to break it to you but Ellington left DC to pursue his music in New York. Not that DC doesn't have a claim to him. It does. But he is far more associated with New York than Washington. Same is true with Hughes, who did Washington for a while, but is associated most strongly with Harlem because that's where he did so much of his work.
You are right, however, about the preeminence of Howard U. We never had a HBCU in NYC and the honor roll of those assocaited with it, like Locke, E. Franklin Frazier, Thurgood Marshall, Carter G Woodson, and many others is pretty clear.
IDK - Ellington is a DC institution. When he moved to NYC, the name of his band was called the Washingtonians. He considered himself as one of DC's elite. U Street was known as the "Black Broadway" well before Harlem. Harlem just took it to another level.
What about Paul Lawrence Dunbar - Le Droit Park; Mary McLeod Bethune - Logan Circle; Carter G. Woodson -Shaw; Pearl Bailey?
IDK - Ellington is a DC institution. When he moved to NYC, the name of his band was called the Washingtonians. He considered himself as one of DC's elite. U Street was known as the "Black Broadway" well before Harlem. Harlem just took it to another level.
What about Paul Lawrence Dunbar - Le Droit Park; Mary McLeod Bethune - Logan Circle; Carter G. Woodson -Shaw; Pearl Bailey?
Never said that the Duke wasn't important to DC cultural history or that he didnt love the city and perform there many times, even after he left. That's undeniable. But when musicians, then and now, seek out the big time a lot of them come to New York to live and work. They can be big somewhere else, but they can be bigger in New York. That's what happened with the Duke. He may have started out in DC, but he lived most of his life and died in New York. But its OK. We can share him! (Like I said originally, both black DC and NYC have had a lot good musicians.)
Dunbar was associated with Howard too (thank you for reminding me of that) and I gave full credit to the influence Howard alums have had on America. Bethune I know lived in DC. But I'm not quite sure she counts as DC's own since her best known accomplishment was her educational work, most of which was in the deep south.
Never said that the Duke wasn't important to DC cultural history or that he didnt love the city and perform there many times, even after he left. That's undeniable. But when musicians, then and now, seek out the big time a lot of them come to New York to live and work. They can be big somewhere else, but they can be bigger in New York. That's what happened with the Duke. He may have started out in DC, but he lived most of his life and died in New York. But its OK. We can share him! (Like I said originally, both black DC and NYC have had a lot good musicians.)
Dunbar was associated with Howard too (thank you for reminding me of that) and I gave full credit to the influence Howard alums have had on America. Bethune I know lived in DC. But I'm not quite sure she counts as DC's own since her best known accomplishment was her educational work, most of which was in the deep south.
Well, one thing I know Bethune did in DC was help desegregate the People's Drug Store at 14th and U streets. She and Mary Church Terrell led sit-ins at the People's lunch counter, which was one of the few (only?) segregated businesses on U Street at that time.
I do think her educational work was more in the deep south, though.
Two other U Street-related names to throw out: Anna J. Cooper and Charles Hamilton Houston.
And no, DC certainly can't compete with NYC when it comes to music--NYC's just a cultural behemoth in every regard. But for a city its size DC has churned out some phenomenal jazz musicians. Even today, when I spend time in places like HR, Bohemian Caverns or Twins I'm blown away by the quality of the musicianship here.
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