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I always hear some people try to justify it by saying things like "oh the chances of a crime actually happening against is only this and this, and there is this many people in the whole city" and such. Well guess what it's not just about a crime being committed against you it's having to live with the fear everyday that it might.
But it's not in certain cities. The crime doesn't spill over into the good areas in a lot of big cities and you DONT have to worry. I went out, alone, at 4am Saturday night to get food 4 blocks away and you know what? I wasn't worried one bit, and absolutely nothing happened to me. I'm not worried because my area doesn't have spill over and neither do a lot of areas. My area is really MILES from any sort of bad area and most of the crime that happens near me is shoplifting. In the parts of town north, it's even better. Yes, there is the occasional battery/assault on the street and stuff but it's not terribly common. In fact, if you look at the data for this type of thing, you will notice these sorts of crimes at least 50% of the time happen outside of bars - so it's safe to assume that it's a bunch of drunk idiots getting into fights every once in awhile.
Not understanding this, again, is not understanding how cities or a particular city works and is a complete cop out. For some cities it's more prevalent than others, and some definitely far less prevalent. Painting a large city with a broad brush is very, very dangerous. Sure, it doesn't excuse all crime, but you have to understand how each city works, where the crime is, if there's spillover, etc. It's just lazy science/statistics to not go down to the detailed level.
Last edited by marothisu; 06-17-2013 at 10:44 AM..
Location: Metro Atlanta (Sandy Springs), by way of Macon, GA
2,014 posts, read 5,101,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaySwelly
The way I see it, the crime ratings are overrated. In many cases, I see C-D posters using them to bash certain cities. They take the data and paint a broad stroke over an entire city, calling it unsafe. I tend to see this done with Atlanta. Now, there are bad areas in many cities, but who tends to live there? Usually it is poorer people and they tend to be involved in drugs and gang violence. When people ask about cities on C-D, they obviously aren't looking to live in those dangerous places.
The phrase "high-crime city" is disingenuous and misleading. When we see that Chicago has a higher crime rate than Portland(?), we should also note the areas where the crime is located. As some posters above described with Chicago, there is a terrible problem with gang violence in certain areas of the city (I'm guessing the Southside). If you don't go to or live in South Chicago and you live your life as an upstanding US citizen, you will probably be unaffected by the problems that occur there. marothisu posted some great data on the number of homicides per 100k people in Chicago. Many of those areas are comparable to the "safest cities" in the US.
Took the words right out of my mouth. The bashers then start describing the ENTIRE city in a way that ONLY someone who lived in or very, very close to one of those ghettos would have to worry about.
But it's not in certain cities. The crime doesn't spill over into the good areas in a lot of big cities and you DONT have to worry. I went out, alone, at 4am Saturday night to get food 4 blocks away and you know what? I wasn't worried one bit, and absolutely nothing happened to me. I'm not worried because my area doesn't have spill over and neither do a lot of areas.
Not understanding this, again, is not understanding how cities or a particular city works and is a complete cop out. For some cities it's more prevalent than others, and some definitely far less prevalent.
Not trying to start something here but do you regularly have to go around nearby areas in the west side or south side of Chicago where high crime is present? Then you wouldn't really know what I am talking about. And even to say that you did and you can deal with that not everybody is like that and they can't really take the stress.
I am not really saying that you have to live in fear in the entire city of course not. But my argument is really that saying things like "the odds of a crime actually happening against you is this, there were actually 1 murder in that whole neighborhood" is quite misleading for the nearby neighborhoods of a crime-filled area because it totally ignores the psychological fear and pressure of someone that lives there or has to go through there regularly that some gangbangers or whatever might venture out to their area from a few neighborhoods away and then who know what. Now for areas that are far away from those places like say the north side where most of the population lives it's not really problem they have to deal with. But for those people I mentioned previously that's definitely a problem.
Not trying to start something here but do you regularly have to go around nearby areas in the west side or south side of Chicago where high crime is present? Then you wouldn't really know what I am talking about. And even to say that you did and you can deal with that not everybody is like that and they can't really take the stress.
No, not in the least bit. Do I? Yes, I actually do but it's out of my own curiosity, but not even close to out of necessity. I know people who have lived in Chicago for 20 years and literally the first time they ever went to Wicker Park was last year. There are only a few areas of town to them. A woman I work with even says "Anything west of Western Ave isn't even Chicago" even though there's miles and miles of stuff west of Western that IS Chicago.
In absolute reality, On any given day of the year, you are 99% likely to find me in only these areas: Near North Side, Loop, Wicker Park, Ukrainian Village, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Uptown, Lincoln Square, Edgewater, Albany Park, Armour Square (Chinatown), Near South Side, etc. The only area even close to any "bad" areas is Ukrainian Village, but even then there's a big buffer for at least 0.5 mile buffer before it gets bad. Every once in awhile I may try and go to an area like Hyde Park, or when I volunteer at stuff on the South Side a few times per year.
Most people who live in these areas, that's very true too. In fact, I have friends who literally never leave the areas of Near North, Lincoln Park, and the Loop. I mean honestly, if you live in an area like Lakeview, Near North Side, or Lincoln Park (amongst others such as...Uptown, Edgewater, etc), they're so self sustaining for a "normal" person that you'd have little reason to actually leave the area if you didn't want to. I could easily do that where I live (Gold Coast) and I know people who own businesses in the neighborhood who rarely ever leave a 1 mile radius because almost everything you'd ever need is within that radius.
Quote:
I am not really saying that you have to live in fear in the entire city of course not. But my argument is really that saying things like "the odds of a crime actually happening against you is this, there were actually 1 murder in that whole neighborhood" is quite misleading for the nearby neighborhoods of a crime-filled area because it totally ignores the psychological fear and pressure of someone that lives there or has to go through there regularly that some gangbangers or whatever might venture out to their area from a few neighborhoods away and then who know what. Now for areas that are far away from those places like say the north side where most of the population lives it's not really problem they have to deal with. But for those people I mentioned previously that's definitely a problem.
Well, it depends on the city. Some cities' bad areas are closer to the good areas while some cities are actually quite segregated
Last edited by marothisu; 06-17-2013 at 12:15 PM..
I think the only way it would be accurate to describe an entire city as "bad" because of the crime is:
1) Crime spills over from the bad neighborhoods into the "good" ones on a regular basis
2) The city is very small in land size
Or if people from the "good" neighborhoods venture out of them.
And I don't think higher crime statistics alone make a city "bad." Just makes it higher crime. Which, incidentally, encompasses more than just the murder rate.
In cities with what is considered dangerous or have a high homicide count does it effect you somewhat that these killings continue even though you live in a safe community? And there seems to be a never ending stigma attached to cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore with posters from these cities continually coming to their defense.
In cities with what is considered dangerous or have a high homicide count does it effect you somewhat that these killings continue even though you live in a safe community? And there seems to be a never ending stigma attached to cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore with posters from these cities continually coming to their defense.
Only if innocent people are shot. Honestly, if it's two gang members killing each other, then I'm a lot less sympathetic. I feel bad for some of their families though. There are a few times a year where it's like "oh god....seriously? I hate people" to some stuff for sure. I think that's happened about four times this year.
If anyone thinks living in a "safe neighborhood" in a high-crime city insulates them from the problem of that high-crime, they're sadly mistaken.
So therefore what?
81% of the adults in my neighborhood have a bachelor degree or higher and the average family earns $330,000 a year. I dont know anyone who feels insulated from crime, but everyone I know is very happy living here. We could live anywhere but CHOOSE to be here because the Oakland Hills(about 2 dozen neighborhoods btw and Piedmont, a town completely surrounded by Oakland that is richer than Beverly Hills) is oh-so-chic.
All of this despite Oakland having a high crime rate.
Location: Metro Atlanta (Sandy Springs), by way of Macon, GA
2,014 posts, read 5,101,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
Only if innocent people are shot. Honestly, if it's two gang members killing each other, then I'm a lot less sympathetic. I feel bad for some of their families though. There are a few times a year where it's like "oh god....seriously? I hate people" to some stuff for sure. I think that's happened about four times this year.
Great point. It's usually thugs killing thugs, not the soccer mom in her middle class neighborhood in one of the good parts of the town that made a store run.
Too many times people paint these "high crime" cities with a broad brush as if things happen all over to any body all the time when it's just not the case
The way I view it a city being dangerous as a whole is only if when you go through the bad neighborhoods you actually feel your life is in danger. Richmond, Norfolk, north charleston atlanta or dallas even Memphis have high crime rates but when I am in these areas I never feel completely uncomfortable. I say uncomfortable because being scared to just be in an area is ridiculous if you aren't doing anything wrong. On the contrary when I visit Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Chicago I feel a different uncomfortability when just breezing through the rough spots. It's also the ridiculous amount of time you spend in the rough areas in these cities just driving around. So in so many words I think a city can actually be dangerous but I'd be more concerned where the actual crime happens.
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