Arizona vs. Florida for snowbirds (Oct-May) (living, best, cost, state)
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Has anyone tried living in both areas Oct to May? I'm in my early 40's but looking to be a snowbird and live in Arizona or Florida (or maybe somewhere else warm) from Oct-May. Probably primary looking at the Phoenix area in AZ. Not sure where in Florida. I know of course they are obviously very different in terms of geography, landscape, etc... But looking for someone opinion who's lived in both as a snowbird and their personal preference and why. Thanks.
if i were you I would choose between South Florida and Southern CA. I would eliminate Arizona because it isnt as warm in the winter months (cooler day and night, more possibilities of frost/freeze) as SoCal and SoFla. Also Southern CA has the most things to do out of the 3 with South Florida coming 2nd.
weather wise in Southern CA -
Inland Los Angeles Metro, October is around 30C/86F, Nov 1-15 is still above 80F/27F, but from 16-30 it cools to mid and low 70s, Dec and jan are in low 70s, they receive yealy heat waves that send temps in LA area to 90s in Jan/Dec, usually the lowest it will drop to is around 40F. Feb in low 70s, then March into mid 70s, then starting around 15th of april temps climb to above 80F, and may is into low/mid 80s with lows in 60s reappearing. also most rain occurs in this time
another popular destination is the coachella valley (Palm Springs) here the climate is more extreme as in october the temps are cooling down from 110F summers, to about mid to low 90s, then a fast cool down into dec and Jan drop temps to low 70s (still very pleasant), but night lows can drop to 30s because of possibility of snow capped mountains surrounding the valley, but they are usually mid 40s, then its a faster warm up as starting in march temps surpass 80f, and heading into may temps already average 100F in late march, as opposed to the more gradual climb in inland LA metro to mid/upper 80s in the same time of year(late may).
in so fla i cant really go into specifics, but i can give you a contrast to CA. After South Florida's humid summers in the upper 80s it drops in october to about mid 80s, nov to about upper to mid 70s, and dec and jan are about a mid 70s high and upper 50s low, with possibility of cold snaps (30s), then it begins to warm up, march still in mid 70s, april to upper 70s, and may to low 80s and the humidity starting.
Has anyone tried living in both areas Oct to May? I'm in my early 40's but looking to be a snowbird and live in Arizona or Florida (or maybe somewhere else warm) from Oct-May. Probably primary looking at the Phoenix area in AZ. Not sure where in Florida. I know of course they are obviously very different in terms of geography, landscape, etc... But looking for someone opinion who's lived in both as a snowbird and their personal preference and why. Thanks.
Although I'm not a snowbird, I lived in Boca Raton, FL for 12 years and have been living in Scottsdale, AZ since mid-2012, and I'm only a few years younger than you (late 30's), so I'll give it my best shot.
Winters in the Phoenix area are mild, for sure, but not necessarily warm in the same respect as winters in South Florida. December 1st to March 1st is much cooler in Phoenix than South Florida, which, of course, is better for some and worse for others. If I was snowbird living in an area for the winter months only (i.e., December to March), then you wouldn't find me in Phoenix. OTOH, if I was to snowbird in a place from October to May, then that'd be a different story.
I will have you know that October, November, March, April, and May are much nicer weather-wise in Phoenix than South Florida. During these months, Phoenix is drier and sunnier than South Florida with cooler nights and much less volatile weather, up to and including hurricanes; tropical depressions; torrential downpours; electrical storms; tornadoes; and, to a lesser extent, hailstorms. In fact, Phoenix rarely gets any type of "weather" from early March 'til about late June/early July when monsoon season begins.
In South Florida, May, October, and November are "rainy season" months, meaning daily afternoon thunderstorms and torrential downpours, passing tropical depressions (i.e., days of overcast skies and moderate to heavy rain), and increased hurricane risk (excluding May, which is not considered hurricane season). Even December can be quite rainy and cloudy in South Florida. February through April is tornado season in all of Florida, although tornadoes in South Florida are usually less deadly than those in the Midwest and other parts of the South.
In Phoenix, the rainy season is called "monsoon season," and typically lasts for about 8-10 weeks in July, August, and the first half of September, with most of the precipitation for the year falling during this period. That's also when we're most prone to dust storms or "haboobs" and, by Arizona standards, high humidity. However, you wouldn't be in town during this time of the year, so this is irrelevant.
That said, Phoenix does have a winter rainy season, too, although like monsoon season, the occurrence of rain events is highly variable from year to year. For example, this past winter, we had only a handful of rain events, as it was an unusually dry winter. In fact, I don't think it rained at all during February. The previous winter, IIRC, was wetter and much colder. FWIW, last winter, it snowed in Tucson and in the higher elevations of the Phoenix valley, including outlying areas of Scottsdale, so it can snow in the desert areas of Arizona, albeit very rare.
The scenery of Phoenix--and Arizona in general, for that matter--blows that of Florida out of the water, especially if you prefer mountainous topography. If you tire of Sonoran Desert scenery and want cooler temperatures and trees/greenery in the summer, foliage in the fall, and/or snow and skiing/snowboarding in the winter, then you can head up to Sedona, Flagstaff, or any number of the smaller towns in the northern part of the state. Some of the of the most breathtaking natural scenery in the United States can be found in northern Arizona. The Everglades and the Gulf of Mexico coastline are nice--don't get me wrong--but there's nothing like the Grand Canyon in Florida. Also, the scenery in Florida doesn't really change all that much from one end of the state to the other--it's pretty flat and nondescript from Miami to Pensacola. As you travel north in Florida, you just get scrubbier-looking palm trees and more pine trees. To see any real change in topography, you have to travel to North Georgia at the very least--no, thanks.
Also, if you live in Florida, you're regional travel is pretty much relegated to other parts of the state. Unless boating, the beach, and the theme parks are your thing, then this could be a potential drawback. OTOH, Phoenix is in reasonable driving distance to Los Angeles, San Diego, and Las Vegas, which all make fantastic weekend trips. Miami is fun, but Tampa and Jacksonville are boring, and Orlando is really only fun if you're a child or a theme park junkie. If boating is your thing, we have plenty lakes plus the Colorado River nearby, although no saltwater boating obviously.
Regarding the age issue, Phoenix and in particular Scottsdale is a much better place for a snowbird in his or her early 40's, as this area is home to lots of professional singles in their 30's, 40's, and beyond. I've met some young retirees out here while out and about, although I don't think any as young as you. However, there are way more older young adults and younger middle-aged people here than in just about any city in Florida that I can think of. In most of the smaller coastal towns in Florida (e.g., Naples, Sarasota, Stuart, et al.), the crowd trends much older (i.e., 60's, 70's, & 80's). On a similar note, Scottsdale is more cosmopolitan and trendier than just about anywhere in Florida, and people out here tend to have more refined tastes, consistent with California.
Because Florida is as flat as a pancake with much more humid weather, it's a less conducive place to physical activities such as hiking, mountain biking, rock-climbing, et al. IMO, the weather and topography of Arizona encourage outdoor activity and help make it a much more active, outdoors-oriented place overall. Besides the beach, the population of South Florida isn't very outdoorsy, LOL. The population of Arizona is generally more health-conscious, too--more organic and health food stores, more supporters of CSA, fewer smokers, fewer overweight/obese people, etc.
Aside from the differences in weather, scenery, and lifestyle, Arizona and Florida couldn't be more different in terms of people and culture, and I personally find Arizona to be an easier, more pleasant place to live than Florida, especially as a white male--no reverse racism or racial strife to really speak of, fewer angry minorities (and angry people in general), fewer thuggish types, and so forth. Overall, people of different racial backgrounds seem to coexist better in Arizona than Florida, which is home to plenty of transplants, although mostly working-class ethnic whites from highly-segregated cities in the Northeast and Midwest as well as many natives who harbor a lot of bitterness towards other races. There's also way less tolerance for ghetto behavior in Arizona, too. I understand that this is a delicate issue, but it's something that clearly differentiates Florida from most, if not all, of the Western states.
Florida is a Southern state, and although you'd be hard-pressed to find true Southern culture in most of the major population centers in the southern half of the state, there are still plenty of Southern undertones. Social circles in neighborhoods, workplaces, schools, etc. are very segregated--blacks really only associate with other blacks, whites with other whites, etc. You still see lots of Confederate flags and flag decals/bumper stickers/license plates on vehicles, although mostly jacked-up pickup trucks. And every once in a blue moon, someone will call you or refer to you as "Yankee" if you're from "up North," albeit much less common than in other Southern states. Hard liquor isn't sold in grocery stores, and aside from Miami-Dade County (at least the last time I checked), liquor sales don't begin until 12:00pm on Sundays. Oh, yeah--no liberal marijuana laws, either.
If it matters, Arizona has none of those issues. Arizona has a West Coast vibe: very casual; polite (e.g., you will rarely hear a car horn here); open-minded; tolerant, even if not approving; and although people can seem aloof, they are usually pleasant if you talk first. No one cares what religion you are out here, and most people revere nature.
For the most part, people in Florida are angry; rude; arrogant; selfish; and, in many cases, just plain bizarre. Most of the time, people in Florida are just looking to "one-up" you: cut you in line, beat you to the stoplight, cut you off at the last possible second, drive a more expensive car than you, have a hotter wife/girlfriend, etc. Everyone in Florida seems to go out of their way to act shrewd, ghetto, redneck, or some other variant of "tough." Florida is also home to significantly more bizarre crime and goings-on than Arizona. Look up the "FloriDUH Blog" published in the Sun-Sentinel. If that isn't enough to scare you, then I don't know what in the world is! Also, I'll have you know that lots of people who move to Florida, especially in your age group, seem to be running from something (e.g., a criminal record, a history of drug use, a crazy ex, etc.). In broad terms, I would venture to say that Florida is, perhaps, home to the lowest quality of people in the nation.
On a final note, driving in Phoenix is much better than driving in South Florida, which is is a very scary experience in and of itself, as drivers down there are, perhaps, the most aggressive in the US after those in the NYC area, which is where many people in Florida originate--go figure. On a similar note, since many of the people living in Florida in general are from the Northeast, you hear a lot of whining, complaining, and "kvetching" down there. Also, if you don't wanna hear about how NYC is God's gift day-in and day-out, avoid the retirement communities in Florida.
I tried to touch on everything I could think of. If there's anything else you'd like to know, please don't hesitate to message me. Best of luck in your decision.
Last edited by 8to32characters; 06-19-2014 at 06:22 PM..
if i were you I would choose between South Florida and Southern CA. I would eliminate Arizona because it isnt as warm in the winter months (cooler day and night, more possibilities of frost/freeze) as SoCal and SoFla. Also Southern CA has the most things to do out of the 3 with South Florida coming 2nd.
weather wise in Southern CA -
Inland Los Angeles Metro, October is around 30C/86F, Nov 1-15 is still above 80F/27F, but from 16-30 it cools to mid and low 70s, Dec and jan are in low 70s, they receive yealy heat waves that send temps in LA area to 90s in Jan/Dec, usually the lowest it will drop to is around 40F. Feb in low 70s, then March into mid 70s, then starting around 15th of april temps climb to above 80F, and may is into low/mid 80s with lows in 60s reappearing. also most rain occurs in this time
another popular destination is the coachella valley (Palm Springs) here the climate is more extreme as in october the temps are cooling down from 110F summers, to about mid to low 90s, then a fast cool down into dec and Jan drop temps to low 70s (still very pleasant), but night lows can drop to 30s because of possibility of snow capped mountains surrounding the valley, but they are usually mid 40s, then its a faster warm up as starting in march temps surpass 80f, and heading into may temps already average 100F in late march, as opposed to the more gradual climb in inland LA metro to mid/upper 80s in the same time of year(late may).
in so fla i cant really go into specifics, but i can give you a contrast to CA. After South Florida's humid summers in the upper 80s it drops in october to about mid 80s, nov to about upper to mid 70s, and dec and jan are about a mid 70s high and upper 50s low, with possibility of cold snaps (30s), then it begins to warm up, march still in mid 70s, april to upper 70s, and may to low 80s and the humidity starting.
Thanks. I lived in San Diego for 7 years prior, and I don't think SD is that much warmer then PHX in Dec, Jan, Feb. They have about the same day time temps, Phx just dips at night a little more at night. San Diego can get pretty cold at night, plenty of nights in the 40's in winter. Actually Phoenix warms up more in Feb and March while San Diego is still mostly in the high 60's. I don't like Palm Springs don't want to live out there. SoCal is also a lot more expensive housing wise than PHX. Phx has better sports than SD in winters too (Suns, Cardinals, Spring Training, pro hockey, Pac 12 with ASU). Phx also has some great getaways with Sedona, Flagstaff, Saguaro Nat. Park, Prescott, Grand Canyon. I just don't want to go back to Cali, too high of a state income tax there too.
Thanks. I lived in San Diego for 7 years prior, and I don't think SD is that much warmer then PHX in Dec, Jan, Feb. They have about the same day time temps, Phx just dips at night a little more at night. San Diego can get pretty cold at night, plenty of nights in the 40's in winter. Actually Phoenix warms up more in Feb and March while San Diego is still mostly in the high 60's. I don't like Palm Springs don't want to live out there. SoCal is also a lot more expensive housing wise than PHX. Phx has better sports than SD in winters too (Suns, Cardinals, Spring Training, pro hockey, Pac 12 with ASU). Phx also has some great getaways with Sedona, Flagstaff, Saguaro Nat. Park, Prescott, Grand Canyon. I just don't want to go back to Cali, too high of a state income tax there too.
you're welcome, but inland LA (and LA area as a whole) is warmer than SD Area. too bad about the price and taxes needed to live here
Although I'm not a snowbird, I lived in Boca Raton, FL for 12 years and have been living in Scottsdale, AZ since mid-2012, and I'm only a few years younger than you (late 30's), so I'll give it my best shot.
Winters in the Phoenix area are mild, for sure, but not necessarily warm in the same respect as winters in South Florida. December 1st to March 1st is much cooler in Phoenix than South Florida, which, of course, is better for some and worse for others. If I was snowbird living in an area for the winter months only (i.e., December to March), then you wouldn't find me in Phoenix. OTOH, if I was to snowbird in a place from October to May, then that'd be a different story.
I will have you know that October, November, March, April, and May are much nicer weather-wise in Phoenix than South Florida. During these months, Phoenix is drier and sunnier than South Florida with cooler nights and much less volatile weather, up to and including hurricanes; tropical depressions; torrential downpours; electrical storms; tornadoes; and, to a lesser extent, hailstorms. In fact, Phoenix rarely gets any type of "weather" from early March 'til about late June/early July when monsoon season begins.
In South Florida, May, October, and November are "rainy season" months, meaning daily afternoon thunderstorms and torrential downpours, passing tropical depressions (i.e., days of overcast skies and moderate to heavy rain), and increased hurricane risk (excluding May, which is not considered hurricane season). Even December can be quite rainy and cloudy in South Florida. February through April is tornado season in all of Florida, although tornadoes in South Florida are usually less deadly than those in the Midwest and other parts of the South.
In Phoenix, the rainy season is called "monsoon season," and typically lasts for about 8-10 weeks in July, August, and the first half of September, with most of the precipitation for the year falling during this period. That's also when we're most prone to dust storms or "haboobs" and, by Arizona standards, high humidity. However, you wouldn't be in town during this time of the year, so this is irrelevant.
That said, Phoenix does have a winter rainy season, too, although like monsoon season, the occurrence of rain events is highly variable from year to year. For example, this past winter, we had only a handful of rain events, as it was an unusually dry winter. In fact, I don't think it rained at all during February. The previous winter, IIRC, was wetter and much colder. FWIW, last winter, it snowed in Tucson and in the higher elevations of the Phoenix valley, including outlying areas of Scottsdale, so it can snow in the desert areas of Arizona, albeit very rare.
The scenery of Phoenix--and Arizona in general, for that matter--blows that of Florida out of the water, especially if you prefer mountainous topography. If you tire of Sonoran Desert scenery and want cooler temperatures and trees/greenery in the summer, foliage in the fall, and/or snow and skiing/snowboarding in the winter, then you can head up to Sedona, Flagstaff, or any number of the smaller towns in the northern part of the state. Some of the of the most breathtaking natural scenery in the United States can be found in northern Arizona. The Everglades and the Gulf of Mexico coastline are nice--don't get me wrong--but there's nothing like the Grand Canyon in Florida. Also, the scenery in Florida doesn't really change all that much from one end of the state to the other--it's pretty flat and nondescript from Miami to Pensacola. As you travel north in Florida, you just get scrubbier-looking palm trees and more pine trees. To see any real change in topography, you have to travel to North Georgia at the very least--no, thanks.
Also, if you live in Florida, you're regional travel is pretty much relegated to other parts of the state. Unless boating, the beach, and the theme parks are your thing, then this could be a potential drawback. OTOH, Phoenix is in reasonable driving distance to Los Angeles, San Diego, and Las Vegas, which all make fantastic weekend trips. Miami is fun, but Tampa and Jacksonville are boring, and Orlando is really only fun if you're a child or a theme park junkie. If boating is your thing, we have plenty lakes plus the Colorado River nearby, although no saltwater boating obviously.
Regarding the age issue, Phoenix and in particular Scottsdale is a much better place for a snowbird in his or her early 40's, as this area is home to lots of professional singles in their 30's, 40's, and beyond. I've met some young retirees out here while out and about, although I don't think any as young as you. However, there are way more older young adults and younger middle-aged people here than in just about any city in Florida that I can think of. In most of the smaller coastal towns in Florida (e.g., Naples, Sarasota, Stuart, et al.), the crowd trends much older (i.e., 60's, 70's, & 80's). On a similar note, Scottsdale is more cosmopolitan and trendier than just about anywhere in Florida, and people out here tend to have more refined tastes, consistent with California.
Because Florida is as flat as a pancake with much more humid weather, it's a less conducive place to physical activities such as hiking, mountain biking, rock-climbing, et al. IMO, the weather and topography of Arizona encourage outdoor activity and help make it a much more active, outdoors-oriented place overall. Besides the beach, the population of South Florida isn't very outdoorsy, LOL. The population of Arizona is generally more health-conscious, too--more organic and health food stores, more supporters of CSA, fewer smokers, fewer overweight/obese people, etc.
Aside from the differences in weather, scenery, and lifestyle, Arizona and Florida couldn't be more different in terms of people and culture, and I personally find Arizona to be an easier, more pleasant place to live than Florida, especially as a white male--no reverse racism or racial strife to really speak of, fewer angry minorities (and angry people in general), fewer thuggish types, and so forth. Overall, people of different racial backgrounds seem to coexist better in Arizona than Florida, which is home to plenty of transplants, although mostly working-class ethnic whites from highly-segregated cities in the Northeast and Midwest as well as many natives who harbor a lot of bitterness towards other races. There's also way less tolerance for ghetto behavior in Arizona, too. I understand that this is a delicate issue, but it's something that clearly differentiates Florida from most, if not all, of the Western states.
Florida is a Southern state, and although you'd be hard-pressed to find true Southern culture in most of the major population centers in the southern half of the state, there are still plenty of Southern undertones. Social circles in neighborhoods, workplaces, schools, etc. are very segregated--blacks really only associate with other blacks, whites with other whites, etc. You still see lots of Confederate flags and flag decals/bumper stickers/license plates on vehicles, although mostly jacked-up pickup trucks. And every once in a blue moon, someone will call you or refer to you as "Yankee" if you're from "up North," albeit much less common than in other Southern states. Hard liquor isn't sold in grocery stores, and aside from Miami-Dade County (at least the last time I checked), liquor sales don't begin until 12:00pm on Sundays. Oh, yeah--no liberal marijuana laws, either.
If it matters, Arizona has none of those issues. Arizona has a West Coast vibe: very casual; polite (e.g., you will rarely hear a car horn here); open-minded; tolerant, even if not approving; and although people can seem aloof, they are usually pleasant if you talk first. No one cares what religion you are out here, and most people revere nature.
For the most part, people in Florida are angry; rude; arrogant; selfish; and, in many cases, just plain bizarre. Most of the time, people in Florida are just looking to "one-up" you: cut you in line, beat you to the stoplight, cut you off at the last possible second, drive a more expensive car than you, have a hotter wife/girlfriend, etc. Everyone in Florida seems to go out of their way to act shrewd, ghetto, redneck, or some other variant of "tough." Florida is also home to significantly more bizarre crime and goings-on than Arizona. Look up the "FloriDUH Blog" published in the Sun-Sentinel. If that isn't enough to scare you, then I don't know what in the world is! Also, I'll have you know that lots of people who move to Florida, especially in your age group, seem to be running from something (e.g., a criminal record, a history of drug use, a crazy ex, etc.). In broad terms, I would venture to say that Florida is, perhaps, home to the lowest quality of people in the nation.
On a final note, driving in Phoenix is much better than driving in South Florida, which is is a very scary experience in and of itself, as drivers down there are, perhaps, the most aggressive in the US after those in the NYC area, which is where many people in Florida originate--go figure. On a similar note, since many of the people living in Florida in general are from the Northeast, you hear a lot of whining, complaining, and "kvetching" down there. Also, if you don't wanna hear about how NYC is God's gift day-in and day-out, avoid the retirement communities in Florida.
I tried to touch on everything I could think of. If there's anything else you'd like to know, please don't hesitate to message me. Best of luck in your decision.
Outstanding post thank you! Very well written and articulated. Sounds like Phoenix is a much better fit. By the way my summer area of snow birding will be Seattle or Burlington area of Vermont likely.
you're welcome, but inland LA (and LA area as a whole) is warmer than SD Area. too bad about the price and taxes needed to live here
SoCal is not out of the question for me for winters. It is a great place with a lot of stuff to do. I have never lived in the LA area, just San Diego. There is a ton to do in LA...especially for a pro and college sports fan like me and someone who likes to hike. Just want to check out some other areas I haven't been. Sounds like Phx beats the pants off FL. Hawaii is not out of the question but it is very expensive to get a place to live for 6 mos there. Not sure I would want to be in HI for 6-8 mos, maybe 2-3. A lot more to do in Phx and LA. 8to32characters post made me remember back to my last trip to FL in 2002 in Miami. I remember coming back to California where I was living then and thinking how much less ghetto and higher end it felt than Miami and So. FL.
Although I'm not a snowbird, I lived in Boca Raton, FL for 12 years and have been living in Scottsdale, AZ since mid-2012, and I'm only a few years younger than you (late 30's), so I'll give it my best shot.
Winters in the Phoenix area are mild, for sure, but not necessarily warm in the same respect as winters in South Florida. December 1st to March 1st is much cooler in Phoenix than South Florida, which, of course, is better for some and worse for others. If I was snowbird living in an area for the winter months only (i.e., December to March), then you wouldn't find me in Phoenix. OTOH, if I was to snowbird in a place from October to May, then that'd be a different story.
I will have you know that October, November, March, April, and May are much nicer weather-wise in Phoenix than South Florida. During these months, Phoenix is drier and sunnier than South Florida with cooler nights and much less volatile weather, up to and including hurricanes; tropical depressions; torrential downpours; electrical storms; tornadoes; and, to a lesser extent, hailstorms. In fact, Phoenix rarely gets any type of "weather" from early March 'til about late June/early July when monsoon season begins.
In South Florida, May, October, and November are "rainy season" months, meaning daily afternoon thunderstorms and torrential downpours, passing tropical depressions (i.e., days of overcast skies and moderate to heavy rain), and increased hurricane risk (excluding May, which is not considered hurricane season). Even December can be quite rainy and cloudy in South Florida. February through April is tornado season in all of Florida, although tornadoes in South Florida are usually less deadly than those in the Midwest and other parts of the South.
In Phoenix, the rainy season is called "monsoon season," and typically lasts for about 8-10 weeks in July, August, and the first half of September, with most of the precipitation for the year falling during this period. That's also when we're most prone to dust storms or "haboobs" and, by Arizona standards, high humidity. However, you wouldn't be in town during this time of the year, so this is irrelevant.
That said, Phoenix does have a winter rainy season, too, although like monsoon season, the occurrence of rain events is highly variable from year to year. For example, this past winter, we had only a handful of rain events, as it was an unusually dry winter. In fact, I don't think it rained at all during February. The previous winter, IIRC, was wetter and much colder. FWIW, last winter, it snowed in Tucson and in the higher elevations of the Phoenix valley, including outlying areas of Scottsdale, so it can snow in the desert areas of Arizona, albeit very rare.
The scenery of Phoenix--and Arizona in general, for that matter--blows that of Florida out of the water, especially if you prefer mountainous topography. If you tire of Sonoran Desert scenery and want cooler temperatures and trees/greenery in the summer, foliage in the fall, and/or snow and skiing/snowboarding in the winter, then you can head up to Sedona, Flagstaff, or any number of the smaller towns in the northern part of the state. Some of the of the most breathtaking natural scenery in the United States can be found in northern Arizona. The Everglades and the Gulf of Mexico coastline are nice--don't get me wrong--but there's nothing like the Grand Canyon in Florida. Also, the scenery in Florida doesn't really change all that much from one end of the state to the other--it's pretty flat and nondescript from Miami to Pensacola. As you travel north in Florida, you just get scrubbier-looking palm trees and more pine trees. To see any real change in topography, you have to travel to North Georgia at the very least--no, thanks.
Also, if you live in Florida, you're regional travel is pretty much relegated to other parts of the state. Unless boating, the beach, and the theme parks are your thing, then this could be a potential drawback. OTOH, Phoenix is in reasonable driving distance to Los Angeles, San Diego, and Las Vegas, which all make fantastic weekend trips. Miami is fun, but Tampa and Jacksonville are boring, and Orlando is really only fun if you're a child or a theme park junkie. If boating is your thing, we have plenty lakes plus the Colorado River nearby, although no saltwater boating obviously.
Regarding the age issue, Phoenix and in particular Scottsdale is a much better place for a snowbird in his or her early 40's, as this area is home to lots of professional singles in their 30's, 40's, and beyond. I've met some young retirees out here while out and about, although I don't think any as young as you. However, there are way more older young adults and younger middle-aged people here than in just about any city in Florida that I can think of. In most of the smaller coastal towns in Florida (e.g., Naples, Sarasota, Stuart, et al.), the crowd trends much older (i.e., 60's, 70's, & 80's). On a similar note, Scottsdale is more cosmopolitan and trendier than just about anywhere in Florida, and people out here tend to have more refined tastes, consistent with California.
Because Florida is as flat as a pancake with much more humid weather, it's a less conducive place to physical activities such as hiking, mountain biking, rock-climbing, et al. IMO, the weather and topography of Arizona encourage outdoor activity and help make it a much more active, outdoors-oriented place overall. Besides the beach, the population of South Florida isn't very outdoorsy, LOL. The population of Arizona is generally more health-conscious, too--more organic and health food stores, more supporters of CSA, fewer smokers, fewer overweight/obese people, etc.
Aside from the differences in weather, scenery, and lifestyle, Arizona and Florida couldn't be more different in terms of people and culture, and I personally find Arizona to be an easier, more pleasant place to live than Florida, especially as a white male--no reverse racism or racial strife to really speak of, fewer angry minorities (and angry people in general), fewer thuggish types, and so forth. Overall, people of different racial backgrounds seem to coexist better in Arizona than Florida, which is home to plenty of transplants, although mostly working-class ethnic whites from highly-segregated cities in the Northeast and Midwest as well as many natives who harbor a lot of bitterness towards other races. There's also way less tolerance for ghetto behavior in Arizona, too. I understand that this is a delicate issue, but it's something that clearly differentiates Florida from most, if not all, of the Western states.
Florida is a Southern state, and although you'd be hard-pressed to find true Southern culture in most of the major population centers in the southern half of the state, there are still plenty of Southern undertones. Social circles in neighborhoods, workplaces, schools, etc. are very segregated--blacks really only associate with other blacks, whites with other whites, etc. You still see lots of Confederate flags and flag decals/bumper stickers/license plates on vehicles, although mostly jacked-up pickup trucks. And every once in a blue moon, someone will call you or refer to you as "Yankee" if you're from "up North," albeit much less common than in other Southern states. Hard liquor isn't sold in grocery stores, and aside from Miami-Dade County (at least the last time I checked), liquor sales don't begin until 12:00pm on Sundays. Oh, yeah--no liberal marijuana laws, either.
If it matters, Arizona has none of those issues. Arizona has a West Coast vibe: very casual; polite (e.g., you will rarely hear a car horn here); open-minded; tolerant, even if not approving; and although people can seem aloof, they are usually pleasant if you talk first. No one cares what religion you are out here, and most people revere nature.
For the most part, people in Florida are angry; rude; arrogant; selfish; and, in many cases, just plain bizarre. Most of the time, people in Florida are just looking to "one-up" you: cut you in line, beat you to the stoplight, cut you off at the last possible second, drive a more expensive car than you, have a hotter wife/girlfriend, etc. Everyone in Florida seems to go out of their way to act shrewd, ghetto, redneck, or some other variant of "tough." Florida is also home to significantly more bizarre crime and goings-on than Arizona. Look up the "FloriDUH Blog" published in the Sun-Sentinel. If that isn't enough to scare you, then I don't know what in the world is! Also, I'll have you know that lots of people who move to Florida, especially in your age group, seem to be running from something (e.g., a criminal record, a history of drug use, a crazy ex, etc.). In broad terms, I would venture to say that Florida is, perhaps, home to the lowest quality of people in the nation.
On a final note, driving in Phoenix is much better than driving in South Florida, which is is a very scary experience in and of itself, as drivers down there are, perhaps, the most aggressive in the US after those in the NYC area, which is where many people in Florida originate--go figure. On a similar note, since many of the people living in Florida in general are from the Northeast, you hear a lot of whining, complaining, and "kvetching" down there. Also, if you don't wanna hear about how NYC is God's gift day-in and day-out, avoid the retirement communities in Florida.
I tried to touch on everything I could think of. If there's anything else you'd like to know, please don't hesitate to message me. Best of luck in your decision.
Repped you for this, dude.
Honestly one of the most articulate, well written posts I've come across here.
And true
Although I'm not a snowbird, I lived in Boca Raton, FL for 12 years and have been living in Scottsdale, AZ since mid-2012, and I'm only a few years younger than you (late 30's), so I'll give it my best shot.
Winters in the Phoenix area are mild, for sure, but not necessarily warm in the same respect as winters in South Florida. December 1st to March 1st is much cooler in Phoenix than South Florida, which, of course, is better for some and worse for others. If I was snowbird living in an area for the winter months only (i.e., December to March), then you wouldn't find me in Phoenix. OTOH, if I was to snowbird in a place from October to May, then that'd be a different story.
I will have you know that October, November, March, April, and May are much nicer weather-wise in Phoenix than South Florida. During these months, Phoenix is drier and sunnier than South Florida with cooler nights and much less volatile weather, up to and including hurricanes; tropical depressions; torrential downpours; electrical storms; tornadoes; and, to a lesser extent, hailstorms. In fact, Phoenix rarely gets any type of "weather" from early March 'til about late June/early July when monsoon season begins.
In South Florida, May, October, and November are "rainy season" months, meaning daily afternoon thunderstorms and torrential downpours, passing tropical depressions (i.e., days of overcast skies and moderate to heavy rain), and increased hurricane risk (excluding May, which is not considered hurricane season). Even December can be quite rainy and cloudy in South Florida. February through April is tornado season in all of Florida, although tornadoes in South Florida are usually less deadly than those in the Midwest and other parts of the South.
In Phoenix, the rainy season is called "monsoon season," and typically lasts for about 8-10 weeks in July, August, and the first half of September, with most of the precipitation for the year falling during this period. That's also when we're most prone to dust storms or "haboobs" and, by Arizona standards, high humidity. However, you wouldn't be in town during this time of the year, so this is irrelevant.
That said, Phoenix does have a winter rainy season, too, although like monsoon season, the occurrence of rain events is highly variable from year to year. For example, this past winter, we had only a handful of rain events, as it was an unusually dry winter. In fact, I don't think it rained at all during February. The previous winter, IIRC, was wetter and much colder. FWIW, last winter, it snowed in Tucson and in the higher elevations of the Phoenix valley, including outlying areas of Scottsdale, so it can snow in the desert areas of Arizona, albeit very rare.
The scenery of Phoenix--and Arizona in general, for that matter--blows that of Florida out of the water, especially if you prefer mountainous topography. If you tire of Sonoran Desert scenery and want cooler temperatures and trees/greenery in the summer, foliage in the fall, and/or snow and skiing/snowboarding in the winter, then you can head up to Sedona, Flagstaff, or any number of the smaller towns in the northern part of the state. Some of the of the most breathtaking natural scenery in the United States can be found in northern Arizona. The Everglades and the Gulf of Mexico coastline are nice--don't get me wrong--but there's nothing like the Grand Canyon in Florida. Also, the scenery in Florida doesn't really change all that much from one end of the state to the other--it's pretty flat and nondescript from Miami to Pensacola. As you travel north in Florida, you just get scrubbier-looking palm trees and more pine trees. To see any real change in topography, you have to travel to North Georgia at the very least--no, thanks.
Also, if you live in Florida, you're regional travel is pretty much relegated to other parts of the state. Unless boating, the beach, and the theme parks are your thing, then this could be a potential drawback. OTOH, Phoenix is in reasonable driving distance to Los Angeles, San Diego, and Las Vegas, which all make fantastic weekend trips. Miami is fun, but Tampa and Jacksonville are boring, and Orlando is really only fun if you're a child or a theme park junkie. If boating is your thing, we have plenty lakes plus the Colorado River nearby, although no saltwater boating obviously.
Regarding the age issue, Phoenix and in particular Scottsdale is a much better place for a snowbird in his or her early 40's, as this area is home to lots of professional singles in their 30's, 40's, and beyond. I've met some young retirees out here while out and about, although I don't think any as young as you. However, there are way more older young adults and younger middle-aged people here than in just about any city in Florida that I can think of. In most of the smaller coastal towns in Florida (e.g., Naples, Sarasota, Stuart, et al.), the crowd trends much older (i.e., 60's, 70's, & 80's). On a similar note, Scottsdale is more cosmopolitan and trendier than just about anywhere in Florida, and people out here tend to have more refined tastes, consistent with California.
Because Florida is as flat as a pancake with much more humid weather, it's a less conducive place to physical activities such as hiking, mountain biking, rock-climbing, et al. IMO, the weather and topography of Arizona encourage outdoor activity and help make it a much more active, outdoors-oriented place overall. Besides the beach, the population of South Florida isn't very outdoorsy, LOL. The population of Arizona is generally more health-conscious, too--more organic and health food stores, more supporters of CSA, fewer smokers, fewer overweight/obese people, etc.
Aside from the differences in weather, scenery, and lifestyle, Arizona and Florida couldn't be more different in terms of people and culture, and I personally find Arizona to be an easier, more pleasant place to live than Florida, especially as a white male--no reverse racism or racial strife to really speak of, fewer angry minorities (and angry people in general), fewer thuggish types, and so forth. Overall, people of different racial backgrounds seem to coexist better in Arizona than Florida, which is home to plenty of transplants, although mostly working-class ethnic whites from highly-segregated cities in the Northeast and Midwest as well as many natives who harbor a lot of bitterness towards other races. There's also way less tolerance for ghetto behavior in Arizona, too. I understand that this is a delicate issue, but it's something that clearly differentiates Florida from most, if not all, of the Western states.
Florida is a Southern state, and although you'd be hard-pressed to find true Southern culture in most of the major population centers in the southern half of the state, there are still plenty of Southern undertones. Social circles in neighborhoods, workplaces, schools, etc. are very segregated--blacks really only associate with other blacks, whites with other whites, etc. You still see lots of Confederate flags and flag decals/bumper stickers/license plates on vehicles, although mostly jacked-up pickup trucks. And every once in a blue moon, someone will call you or refer to you as "Yankee" if you're from "up North," albeit much less common than in other Southern states. Hard liquor isn't sold in grocery stores, and aside from Miami-Dade County (at least the last time I checked), liquor sales don't begin until 12:00pm on Sundays. Oh, yeah--no liberal marijuana laws, either.
If it matters, Arizona has none of those issues. Arizona has a West Coast vibe: very casual; polite (e.g., you will rarely hear a car horn here); open-minded; tolerant, even if not approving; and although people can seem aloof, they are usually pleasant if you talk first. No one cares what religion you are out here, and most people revere nature.
For the most part, people in Florida are angry; rude; arrogant; selfish; and, in many cases, just plain bizarre. Most of the time, people in Florida are just looking to "one-up" you: cut you in line, beat you to the stoplight, cut you off at the last possible second, drive a more expensive car than you, have a hotter wife/girlfriend, etc. Everyone in Florida seems to go out of their way to act shrewd, ghetto, redneck, or some other variant of "tough." Florida is also home to significantly more bizarre crime and goings-on than Arizona. Look up the "FloriDUH Blog" published in the Sun-Sentinel. If that isn't enough to scare you, then I don't know what in the world is! Also, I'll have you know that lots of people who move to Florida, especially in your age group, seem to be running from something (e.g., a criminal record, a history of drug use, a crazy ex, etc.). In broad terms, I would venture to say that Florida is, perhaps, home to the lowest quality of people in the nation.
On a final note, driving in Phoenix is much better than driving in South Florida, which is is a very scary experience in and of itself, as drivers down there are, perhaps, the most aggressive in the US after those in the NYC area, which is where many people in Florida originate--go figure. On a similar note, since many of the people living in Florida in general are from the Northeast, you hear a lot of whining, complaining, and "kvetching" down there. Also, if you don't wanna hear about how NYC is God's gift day-in and day-out, avoid the retirement communities in Florida.
I tried to touch on everything I could think of. If there's anything else you'd like to know, please don't hesitate to message me. Best of luck in your decision.
This is pure misinformation on FL. Since you talk through personal experiences, I know this guy who had a stable job in FL (making in excess of 70K) but opted to move to PHX for a 6 figure mgmt job. He got involved with some meth dealer and the game was over in 1 month(he lost his job, got divorced, ended up in jail). If you think AZ is any better, you're solely mistaken. PHX and AZ are the number 1 entry point for meth in the US(one of the most potent and destructive drugs).You are spewing misinformation as usual. Learn to talk with facts, not out of your beh*nd.
""Phoenix, Arizona is one of the extensive drug centers of America, and now it's under jurisdiction of one of Mexico's most dominant and brutal drug syndicates, the Sinaloa Cartel.""
I repped 8 to 32 for the well written, thorough, and accurate, from my perspective, comparison between Phoenix and Florida. I grew up in New Orleans and vacationed often in Florida and as an adult, I've spent my time mostly in the Northwest and I go to Phoenix often in the winter. As noted, S. Florida is warmer in the winter and has the beaches but Phoenix blows S. Florida away in just about every other category IMHO.
As for Socal, the really nice areas are very expensive and the lower cost areas are no match for Phoenix imo. I also don't want Cali to try to stick a straw in any of my income either.
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