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My thought process about Cleveland's University Circle is not only that one of the world's best orchestras performs in perhaps the nation's most beautiful concert halls right on campus, or that the superb art museum is adjacent to the campus, as are the very good Cleveland Botanical Garden, Cleveland Museum of Natural History (undergoing a major explansion), and the Western Reserve Historical Society Museum.
It also especially considers the unique nature of the Cleveland Museum of Art. It has one of the nation's best film series and emphasizes performances of some of the world's great masters. From its beginning, part of the CMA's emphasis was on the performing arts.
The Cleveland Institute of Music offers hundreds of generally free performances. Both the Cleveland Orchestra and PlayhouseSquare offer hefty student discounts. General admission to the Cleveland Museum of Art is free.
Not only is the well-ranked University Hospital main complex on campus, the world-renown Cleveland Clinic is adjacent to campus.
University Circle is directly connected to the airport by the Red Line with no transfers needed, while the 24/7 Healthline bus rapid (with subway-like, walk-on, walk-off articulated buses) offers local service between UC and downtown.
UC isn't as much a park as an immense and relatively compact cultural/educatonal/medical center with excellent mass transportation.
St. Louis has pretty much all of the same attractions as Cleveland. One of the worlds best orchestras, an equally attractive art museum, one of the best zoos in the country, some of the best healthcare in the country, etc. St. Louis and Cleveland are roughly evenly matched in size, tourist attractions, sports venues, etc.
St. Louis has pretty much all of the same attractions as Cleveland. One of the worlds best orchestras, an equally attractive art museum, one of the best zoos in the country, some of the best healthcare in the country, etc. St. Louis and Cleveland are roughly evenly matched in size, tourist attractions, sports venues, etc.
Except culturally St. Louis is a bit more southern, and I'd argue a bit less progressive.
I dont think the cities are very similar at all. St. Louis is a different animal, older, brick vernacular and more ties to the West and South. I agree with your first assertion, but the second one ??? In what noticeable way is Cleveland more progressive?
Except culturally St. Louis is a bit more southern, and I'd argue a bit less progressive.
Whatever, you clearly don't know St. Louis. Which city scored a 100% on the Human Rights Campaign Equality Index, and which scored a measly 78% (one of the lowest scores of any big city in the country)?
Hint: St. Louis has maintained 100% for several years. Even Cincinnati got 100%, which makes your claim that Cleveland is "more progressive" than St. Louis sound kind of silly and completely unsubstantiated.
FYI- St. Louis was the first major city in the midwest to enact a domestic partnership registry for same-sex couples, even before Chicago and long before same-sex marriage was even a thought. St. Louis has long been a island of deep blue in an otherwise conservative state. If you come here, you'd know it. And contrary to what you may think, St. Louis is solidly midwestern, not southern. The local accents confirm that.
Whatever, you clearly don't know St. Louis. Which city scored a 100% on the Human Rights Campaign Equality Index, and which Cleveland scored a measly 78% (one of the lowest scores of any big city in the country)?
Hint: St. Louis has maintained 100% for several years. Even Cincinnati got 100%, which makes Cleveland's claim to be "more progressive" than St. Louis sound kind of silly and completely unsubstantiated.
FYI- St. Louis was the first major city in the midwest to enact a domestic partnership registry for same-sex couples, even before Chicago and long before same-sex marriage was even a thought. St. Louis has long been a island of deep blue in an otherwise conservative state. If you come here, you'd know it. And contrary to what you may think, St. Louis is solidly midwestern, not southern. The local accents confirm that.
Fair enough. I'm basing my assessment on the news stories I've heard about the entrenched racial prejudice there. I'm not just talking about Fergusen. There was a story I heard about the highly racist reaction in the Normandy School district when inner city students from St. Louis came to their school district. I understand that, like Cincinnati it's an island of blue in a sea of red, but many of the people who move there come from the sea of red, and influence the culture.
Last edited by Cleverfield; 12-19-2015 at 01:13 PM..
Let me clarify the Normandy School District thing... The Normandy School District is located in the predominantly African-American near north suburbs of St. Louis. When the school district lost accreditaion, the students were sent to an exurban district in St. Charles County, some 30 miles away. It would be like students from East Cleveland being bussed to Medina or some place like that. I'm sure you'd never want Cleveland to be defined by the attitudes of its exurban fringes, so to assume that the some far-flung exurb somehow represents the mentality of most St. Louisans is way off the mark.
And St. Louis certainly has its issues with racial tension, but as we've seen with the recent police killings in Cleveland (Tamir Rice), Chicago (LaQuan McDonald), Baltimore (Freddie Gray) and New York (Eric Garner), so does every other city.
And Cincinnati's island of blue is much smaller and lighter compared to St. Louis.
[The St. Louis Symphony Orchestra is one] of the worlds best orchestras,
I've never seen the St. Louis Orchestra listed as one of the elite orchestras in the world. How often does it perform in NYC or on international tours, annual events for the Cleveland Orchestra?
In the following article, a New York Times music critic notes the Cleveland Orchestra has a "plausible claim to being the best in America." Can you produce a similar article by a non-St. Louis critic lauding the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra?
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While Mr. Welser-Möst’s interpretations run from infuriating to revelatory, something is going right. In its self-effacing virtuosity and variety of colors, its refinement and chamber-style cohesion, the orchestra has a plausible claim to being the best in America. That impression was borne out recently in a week of rehearsals and performances at silvery Severance Hall here and in interviews with musicians, administrators, critics and longtime observers.
As it approaches the centenary of its founding in 1918, the ensemble is at a moment of transition. It has always been something of a miracle that a world-class orchestra was formed, survived and flourished in this city, long rocked by declines in its Rust Belt economy.>>
On the international classical music stage, the Cleveland Orchestra is a long-established superstar. The St. Louis Symphony Orchestra isn't even in the same conversation.
Given the low cost-of-living in Cleveland, and its professional excellence, Cleveland has one of the best compensated orchestras in the U.S. Apparently, base compensation is about 50 percent higher than in St. Louis.
The Cleveland Orchestra is widely known to me among the very best in the world, no argument there. However, the Saint Louis Symphony Orchestra (nation's 2nd oldest) is no slouch and is considered highly esteemed across the board as well. The St. Louis Symphony regularly tours Europe and plays Carnegie Hall regularly too (you can look up to see frequency, I do not know). Here's an article from a while ago, but the symphony has sustained consistent quality and is respected my music critics all over the world:
St. Louis has pretty much all of the same attractions as Cleveland. One of the worlds best orchestras, an equally attractive art museum, one of the best zoos in the country, some of the best healthcare in the country, etc. St. Louis and Cleveland are roughly evenly matched in size, tourist attractions, sports venues, etc.
I've seen the Cleveland Museum of Art on lists of the best art museums in the U.S.
As noted in the above Forbes article, the Cleveland Museum of Art is one of the nation's wealthiest, with assets (likely physical plant and endowment) of over $1 billion.
The Cleveland Museum of Art's endowment is well over $700 million, over four times that of the St. Louis Museum of Art, and its budget of $55 million is about twice that of the St. Louis Museum.
I don't think the St. Louis Museum of Art is in the same league with the Cleveland Museum of Art.
The Cleveland Museum of Art has the most advanced digital technology of any U.S. art museum, reportedly including the nation's largest multi-touch screen.
In equating the St. Louis cultural scene with that in Cleveland, you ignored the points that I made about the CMA's robust film series, extensive performing arts program, and the Cleveland Institute of Art's Cinematheque repertory film program. What specifically is similar in St. Louis?
Note that all of the cultural amenities that I mentioned are within a 5-minute walk of Case Western Reserve.
You just assumed that the cultural amenities in St. Louis are in the same league with comparative institutions in Cleveland. Obviously, to paraphrase you, you know little about Cleveland, and little about St. Louis in relation to rest of the nation and the world.
Last edited by WRnative; 12-19-2015 at 04:25 PM..
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