Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Cleveland has the world-class Cleveland Orchestra, the acclaimed Severance Hall, two great music conservatories (Cleveland Institute of Music, Oberlin) and Blossom Music Center, arguably the best summer classical music venue in the U.S. and Detroit doesn't even have a challenger. Cleveland is home to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum. In classical music and music education, Cleveland dwarfs Detroit.
Have you visited the Cleveland Museum of Art since its massive modernization project was completed (see the "Cleveland Tips" travel article discussion linked below)? Its physical plant is superior to that of the Detroit Institute of Arts Museum and it has the best digital technology of any U.S. art museum including the nation's largest multi-touch screen which interfaces with the museum's ArtLens app in its unique Gallery One.
Both art museums have among the best collections in the U.S., but with very different curatorial emphasis. E.g., the CMA has among the very best collections of Asian art in the U.S. and a world-class collection of textiles.
Cleveland is a couple hours from very good art museums in Toledo (close to Detroit as well) and Youngstown. Oberlin is consistently ranked as possessing one of the best university art museums in the U.S. Akron also has a good art museum.
Cleveland's PlayhouseSquare is one of the best theater districts in the U.S., and the second largest unified theater complex in the U.S. after Lincoln Center in NYC.
It's ridiculous to believe that Detroit is superior to Cleveland in culture.
Cleveland has the acclaimed West Side Market and a highly ranked culinary and brewing scene. I don't think it is inferior to Detroit in any ranking lists that I've seen.
I don't think anybody who has visited both Detroit and Cleveland, with its University Circle, rapidly growing downtown population, and Ohio City Market District would hold Detroit above it.
Cleveland is a few hours from the Allegheny National Forest and good downhill skiing. Ohio Amish Country is the largest Amish community in the world and is located in the beautiful rolling Allegheny foothills.
Cuyahoga Valley National Park is a half hour from Cleveland, nestled between Cleveland and Akron. Holden Arboretum in Kirtland just east of Cleveland is one of the largest and best in the U.S.
The Cleveland Metroparks Zoo is far, far superior to the Detroit Zoo.
Cleveland's great "Emeralds Necklace" metroparks system, many marinas, surf beaches (10 minutes from downtown), lake kayaking, winter toboggan chutes, great bike trails soon to connect Lake Erie with Cuyahoga Valley National Park, also doesn't leave the city in second place to Detroit either.
There is a reason that Cleveland won the competition for the Republican National Convention this coming summer.
-If you are going to include Oberlin with Cleveland, which are 35 miles from each other, than I have to include Ann Arbor with Detroit, which are a little over 40 miles from each other. University of Michigan has an orchestra, and the city of Ann Arbor has an orchestra. In addition, the University of Michigan also has a Museum of Art located in a classical building with a large modern addition.
-Detroit does not have an arboretum or a Museum of Natural History, but Ann Arbor does
-The Detroit area has two modern/contemporary art museums, MOCAD in Midtown and the Cranbrook Art Museum in Bloomfield Hills.
-Cleveland does have the Rock Hall of Fame, but Detroit has (the nation's largest) Museum of African-American History, the Arab American Museum, and the nation's 1st Holocaust Memorial Museum
-Concerning the Metroparks system, the Detroit-Ann Arbor area's Huron-Clinton Metropark system actually has more acreage than Cleveland's (although let's face it, Cleveland's Metroparks are a lot more stunning than Detroit's because of the deep valleys and topographical relief. Detroit does have other recreational assets like Belle Isle and the 17-Mile long parkway and string of parks called Hines Drive, as well as a plethora of large county and state parks in the area.
-Also, Detroit hosted the Republican National Convention and 1980, and going way back, was 2nd to Mexico City to host the 1968 Olympics.
I wasn't intending to say that Cleveland's museums weren't fantastic also. The art museum is free, but also there are a few others around town that are free as well which is nice. The immediate backdrop of CMA is as good as any in the US, and yes, it is nice to have those things so close together. I may even take the actual offerings of UC over those of FP, though both are great. However, the fact that all the museums in FP is very nice. I think I might take UC's things, but then organize them into a more FP like setting (either that, or have an FP like setting nearby). Cleveland's Metroparks are among the Top 5, and possibly the best in the country, and CVNP and Holden are amazing also, but there isn't something (even the Cultural Gardens), which sorta functions like Central Park in the way that FP does in St. Louis, that exists in Cleveland (at least not yet). Each city has it's own strengths.
As far as the Detroit argument:
I appreciate your enthusiasm for Detroit and the strengths that it does have, but internationalism, globalism, cosmopolitanism, and diversity are generally unique ways of saying the same thing, no? : )
Michigan is a great school and getting increasingly better. However, I think you tended (though correctly) to share rankings which backed up your personal opinion. For one thing, it's important to remember that while there is value in University Rankings, after a certain point, it is very much subjective, and so there are certain biases (financial aid, "ROI", etc.) that do go against certain institutions. But even with that in mind, Case does rank ahead of Michigan according to Washington Monthly (9 vs. 13), and in what is considered the "ranking of record", USNWR, 37 vs. 29 is generally a pretty similar tier. The median range for test scores is also pretty similar, with Case actually coming out slightly higher for ACT (29-33 vs. 28-32) and slightly lower for SAT (1830-2130 vs. 1845-2145). Historically, Case has 16 Nobel Laureates vs. 22 for UM, which is quite good considering that Case has a much smaller population and time frame from which to draw, and it also can be said that the most significant medical and scientific achievements that have occurred as Case perhaps affected the world more than those at UM, though I'll admit, the fact that Larry Page is a UM alum is a feather in their cap. In summary, I don't think it's fair based simply on annual website rankings to place one of these schools "head and shoulders" above the other, and it is worth pointing out that Case is within Cleveland city limits.
In terms of the other things (multiculturalism, shopping, economy size, etc.) I won't argue that those are superior in Metro Detroit. However, while you didn't seem to think not having a contiguous ethnic Asian neighborhood within Detroit city limits wasn't a big deal, I think it is helpful for Cleveland to have that lying on the Eastern edge of downtown, as opposed to what could (or couldn't) be there. I have seen places that are very "diverse", but yet are way more assimilated and don't really have the unique international qualities that made them special, which is what I think makes specific ethnic neighborhoods so fun, though I am not saying Detroit doesn't have those as well. And, I guess that because my preferences are simply different from yours, the things that attracted you to Detroit are not as important for me.
Detroit does have a large Mexican neighborhood about 2 miles from Downtown. Also, the suburb of Dearborn (with a population of 100,000) has more Middle Eastern people than all but one city in America - New York City proper.
Go ahead and report me then. I never said anything disrespectful about you or to you so I don't have anything to worry about.
Am not involved with the metroplation you guys started to not me. Did you even check my other thread where I just posted sir. The only time I was talking about metro is the part I was making statement of my thing. So once again am not going to arguing with you sir. So am done talking to you sir good bye sir. If you post something I will ignore it.
It looks like the only one of these where the MSA and the city proper is growing is Cincinnati while St. Louis has a growing MSA and a still shrinking city proper while Detroit and Cleveland have shrinking both city propers and MSAs. For all of these, it does look like population change rates for 2010 to 2014 has been better (either slower shrinkage or slight growth) than it has been for 2000 to 2010. So there's probably a good chance that 2020 results are going to look promising for all of these places compared to 2010.
Also, where do people go to see city population estimates for different years (so as to be able to look at 2011, 2012, and 2013 estimates to see if there is some kind of trend)? When do the 2015 estimates come out?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-17-2016 at 11:11 AM..
I think da Cleveland won, am really confused why Cleveland overtaking Cincinnati. I from Cincinnati, Ohio. I know da metro of Cleveland is higher than Cincinnati. Now here my overall experience I feel da Cleveland is not cleaning there cities little bit. Now if you look at Cincinnati there are new buildings in downtown, and the population is going up tiny bit. St. Louis is not going to change any time soon, and the Rams are moving the LA that what you get St. Louis Mayor. The counties it between St Louis, Detroit, and Cleveland cause the county is so much higher than Cincinnati. Hamilton County, Ohio. Detroit am not feeling it at all there crime is so much high man, and there housing is very poor including Cleveland. And the worst thing about Cleveland is White Castles are gone in the northeast now that random man. Now there education I had to go with Cincinnati, cause outside of Cincinnati there school district is the best IN MY OPINION. I was born in Cleveland in 1997 and it ghetto is heck man. So in 2000 my Mom moved to Cincinnati, Ohio to live in a better place. I really do love Cincinnati so much, and am living there right now man. Cause next year am going to Georgia Tech.
It really hurts my head trying to read your posts! You're going to Georgia Tech and you can't even put together a proper sentence? Lol, good luck!
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,476,450 times
Reputation: 12187
Census estimates show population growth and job growth slowing in Cincinnati. Nonetheless the amount of improvements around the downtown area are impressive. Cincy airport used to be the Delta hub with lots of nonstop flights, now it's much more expensive and has fewer and fewer direct flights. In hindsight they should have built 1 larger airport between Cincy and Dayton rather than 1 in N Dayton and 1 in N KY.
It looks like the only one of these where the MSA and the city proper is growing is Cincinnati while St. Louis has a growing MSA and a still shrinking city proper while Detroit and Cleveland have shrinking both city propers and MSAs. For all of these, it does look like population change rates for 2010 to 2014 has been better (either slower shrinkage or slight growth) than it has been for 2000 to 2010. So there's probably a good chance that 2020 results are going to look promising for all of these places compared to 2010.
Also, where do people go to see city population estimates for different years (so as to be able to look at 2011, 2012, and 2013 estimates to see if there is some kind of trend)? When do the 2015 estimates come out?
I think that all of the MSA's on the list will probably show slight growth by next census. STL and Columbus MSA's has already been growing, Detroit's MSA is showing positive numbers in the estimates year over year since 2012, and Cleveland's MSA estimates will probably turn positive any year now.
Quote:
It really hurts my head trying to read your posts! You're going to Georgia Tech and you can't even put together a proper sentence? Lol, good luck!
Lol I thought I was the only one reading his post 5 times in a row trying to guess what he was talking about.
It looks like the only one of these where the MSA and the city proper is growing is Cincinnati while St. Louis has a growing MSA and a still shrinking city proper while Detroit and Cleveland have shrinking both city propers and MSAs. For all of these, it does look like population change rates for 2010 to 2014 has been better (either slower shrinkage or slight growth) than it has been for 2000 to 2010. So there's probably a good chance that 2020 results are going to look promising for all of these places compared to 2010.
Also, where do people go to see city population estimates for different years (so as to be able to look at 2011, 2012, and 2013 estimates to see if there is some kind of trend)? When do the 2015 estimates come out?
Detroit's MSA bottomed in 2011 and the 2014 estimate has it growing past the 2010 census by 300 residents. St Louis MSA actually seems like it slowed down a bit in 2013 and 2014 and the Cleveland MSA has stabilized but still leaning towards decline. Cincinnati pretty much is the only one seeing consistent growth.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
