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So these cities (possible exception of KC) are often associated with northern rust belt urban decay. However they are all situated in border states. Some people on here consider Maryland, Delaware and Missouri to be southern states. So out of these four cities, which has the most southern influence, as of now.?
When traveling there for the first time, I was shocked to find, in close-in suburban Baltimore, a Robert E. Lee public park. Historically the City was a hotbed of Southern sympathizers during the Civil War which produced John Wilkes Booth...
But I voted for St. Louis which, from the time of the infamous Dred Scott case in the 1850s, first tried in the old Courthouse near the Gateway Arch on up to the Michael Brown police shooting uprising, St. Louis has had a history of racial discomfort. While all these cities existed in so-called "border states" they were very pro-South and southern-like. My litmus test is whether the public university system was officially segregated until after World War II/1950s and in each of these states the answer is: yes.
Baltimore is in the south, so Baltimore would feel the most southern. St Louis and KC are in the Mid-west, and Wilmington is essentially Philly in miniature.
St. Louis is the city that matches most with the Southern vibes IMO. The accent is more similar. The fashion and styles of the people is more Southern. And MD and DE are far too liberal to have their major cities considered Southern.
As time moves on, st. louis is becoming increasingly more southern.
I can't stand when people are like "well this is midwest so it's midwest". Says who? It's like they want their nice little box of how things are and have always been the way they are. All nice and prim and in their pretty little bubble. "Well the US consensus bureau says..." NONSENSE! The consensus bureau staff also still uses Windows XP machines and CRT monitors with 4:3 ratio, and claims Jimmy Johns is risky behavior for lunch.
An hour south of st. louis you start to get tennessee/arkansas culture. That world is creeping in more and more as years go by. Nothing like other midwest states AT ALL imo, esp once you cross the Mississippi and south. "Midwest" is like Sheboygan Wisconsin and Muncie Indiana -- nice white ladies who go to church and talk about the weather, and get uncomfortable at the sight of confrontation and reality. All the
millennials are more or less the same. Prim and proper, "omggggg let's get brunch". No one takes risks. Just a bubble of ...'niiiice' white people who more or less do the same thing every day. If not, then you are a pretend activist thinking you're 'woke' like omg california coastal. Blah blah.
South of St. Louis you get confederate flags, and "hold my beer" lifted trucks going mudding, and catfish spooling. People dont GIVE A F about what they look like or their dental hygiene. I'd argue it's becoming more "southern" than Nashville, as non southerners move into these sunbelt type cities. All of whom are mostly 'prim and proper' little midwest angels. "Omgggg. Can't even."
KC is in the 'let's try to be like Denver' arena. Still prim and proper. St. Louis area is slowly losing, arguably lost that.
Baltimore is connected with DC. It's NOT southern.
While there's nothing wrong with being Southern, I wouldn't consider any of these places to be or even frankly feel Southern. I can speak about St. Louis the most though. I'm from the area, and after coming back after having lived in Chicago for the better part of a decade, I can say with certainty that St. Louis feels much more like Chicago than any place I've been to in the South, even including northern Southern cities like Louisville. Southerners also never considered St. Louis to be apart of the South when I would be asked where I was from.
I'm frankly left wondering how many people who have replied to this thread have actually spent much time in St. Louis. The most Southern things about St. Louis, in my opinion, are its obsession with BBQ and the fact that it's an easy point of entry for the Midwestern market for Southern companies. I know St. Louis had Sonic years before Chicago ever did, for example, and only a specific portion of the Midwest, which includes Missouri, Southern Illinois, Iowa, etc, have Dillard's department stores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf
When traveling there for the first time, I was shocked to find, in close-in suburban Baltimore, a Robert E. Lee public park. Historically the City was a hotbed of Southern sympathizers during the Civil War which produced John Wilkes Booth...
But I voted for St. Louis which, from the time of the infamous Dred Scott case in the 1850s, first tried in the old Courthouse near the Gateway Arch on up to the Michael Brown police shooting uprising, St. Louis has had a history of racial discomfort. While all these cities existed in so-called "border states" they were very pro-South and southern-like. My litmus test is whether the public university system was officially segregated until after World War II/1950s and in each of these states the answer is: yes.
St. Louis lost local control of its police force due to Civil War politics because the pro-Confederacy governor of Missouri was worried that the pro-Union St. Louis was going to overthrow the state government. You'll note that Missouri, a slave state, never seceded from the Union.
Additionally, St. Louis' racial strife follows the mold of most other highly segregated Northern cities in that the majority of it stemmed from the Great Migration, White Flight, and the immediate aftermath. It never had rioting in the 1960s like other major cities, but it did have rioting and major protests following Michael Brown's killing, similar to what happened in other major cities at the time dealing with their own cop shootings, such as Chicago.
As for major universities, the University of Missouri's flagship campus isn't in St. Louis. The University of Missouri--St. Louis wasn't created until the 1960s itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands
I have never been to St Louis, but everyone St Louis native I’ve met was clearly a Southerner. Can’t say the same for Baltimore.
Meanwhile I've never met a single person here who considers themselves to be Southern, myself included. The only person I've ever had argue with me that I was not Midwestern was from St. Paul, MN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
St. Louis is the city that matches most with the Southern vibes IMO. The accent is more similar. The fashion and styles of the people is more Southern. And MD and DE are far too liberal to have their major cities considered Southern.
In terms of the accent, only if you're on the fringes of the metro does a more rural sounding accent creep in. St. Louis is currently one of the only non-Great Lakes or Great Lakes adjacent major metro areas that's undergoing the Northern Cities Vowel Shift. You can't say that about anywhere else in the South.
As for fashion, St. Louis is frankly not very fashionable. The only major difference between here and Chicago I see is more colorful clothing, but even that's to a limited extent. Chicago breaks away from its dark colors when it gets warm outside as well. St. Louisans also look to Chicago if they need a shopping weekend for stores that aren't here, not further to its South.
As time moves on, st. louis is becoming increasingly more southern.
I can't stand when people are like "well this is midwest so it's midwest". Says who? It's like they want their nice little box of how things are and have always been the way they are. All nice and prim and in their pretty little bubble. "Well the US consensus bureau says..." NONSENSE! The consensus bureau staff also still uses Windows XP machines and CRT monitors with 4:3 ratio, and claims Jimmy Johns is risky behavior for lunch.
An hour south of st. louis you start to get tennessee/arkansas culture. That world is creeping in more and more as years go by. Nothing like other midwest states AT ALL imo, esp once you cross the Mississippi and south. "Midwest" is like Sheboygan Wisconsin and Muncie Indiana -- nice white ladies who go to church and talk about the weather, and get uncomfortable at the sight of confrontation and reality. All the
millennials are more or less the same. Prim and proper, "omggggg let's get brunch". No one takes risks. Just a bubble of ...'niiiice' white people who more or less do the same thing every day. If not, then you are a pretend activist thinking you're 'woke' like omg california coastal. Blah blah.
South of St. Louis you get confederate flags, and "hold my beer" lifted trucks going mudding, and catfish spooling. People dont GIVE A F about what they look like or their dental hygiene. I'd argue it's becoming more "southern" than Nashville, as non southerners move into these sunbelt type cities. All of whom are mostly 'prim and proper' little midwest angels. "Omgggg. Can't even."
KC is in the 'let's try to be like Denver' arena. Still prim and proper. St. Louis area is slowly losing, arguably lost that.
Baltimore is connected with DC. It's NOT southern.
Wilmingon? What?
We're talking about St. Louis, not the Boot Heel. Is this supposed to satire?
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