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Like I said, you generalized and that's where you were wrong. I'm happy you're whittling the lack of elevated lines from first NYC, then to Manhattan, and now to lower and midtown Manhattan (you're still off on upper Manhattan unless you're working off a wonky definition of what upper Manhattan is).
And elevated lines in a CBD is still acceptable. It'll lessen noise and pollution by lessening the need for private transportation while, as compared to a subway, not costing nearly as much to the city and offering a great visual experience, better air circulation (though maybe NYC and London can dedicate a lot more resources to improving this), and an interesting visual element to the CBD.
Yea, sure it'll darken the streets where they're present, but it's not bad depending on the degree. If it's a few streets darkened (and I'll gather few city planners can and will put an el line on all or even a majority of the streets stretching through a CBD), then it's hard to consider it a problem given that it might be interesting or even provide relief (from the rain (though certainly the el lines in NYC and Chicago don't do this) or from the sun) to some--and keep in mind, this means that people riding the el or waiting at the stations are exposed to sunlight. Furthermore, you can have large or small profiles for the tracks and the stations. If you had some foresight and funding, then you can certainly mitigate the issue even more by good design.
Dense, built-up, and subsequently built-down CBDs are pretty much the places where the el lines ARE feasible and the subways aren't unless you pay through the teeth. Building subway systems in CBDs (unless it's a CBD that isn't very built yet) is an incredibly expensive and difficult process--which is why many of the mega-cities in the developed countries of East Asia have els. As for building els in a suburb/low-density area, well, that's pretty silly as low-density usually means you build at-grade. If it's low-density, then what is the point of building an el?
It won't let me rep you any higher. Too bad. That was a great post, though. Makes a lot of sense. I think you've convinced him.
My partner was accepted to Fordham University...fully paid. While he takes advantage of that, I'm draining as much money out of NYC as I can. What else is this place good for?
I'm saving as much money as possible from my job & then we are ditching this place for a better city and putting our money into their economy instead. It's a personal choice.
That's right you got it. NYC is for the making-money people. Is not like the other states where they do not hustle for money, and being lazy. That is why, some states are obeast. But we are on the move always.
Whittling? Where did I say there were no elevated lines in New York? I said there are no L's in Manhattan. There used to be 80 years ago. The train emerges from underground in Harlem butn thats far beyond prime real estate in Manhattan.
I don't think so. There is no real advantage of elevated lines to subway.
There are no elevated lines going through dense residential areas in Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Tokyo. The L's are a nuisance unless we are talking about the monorail but even then it is an unsightly alternative..
I have an exprience living close to L in Brooklyn (Broadway) and an experience working close to an L in Chicago where the L claims four prime real estate streets that could otherwise be utilized for ourdoor dining and entertainment. The levated bridges in Chicago and in New York are old, ugly and unsightly. Painting them will not change much.
Yea, guy. That'd be whittling. You went from NYC to Manhattan, and now Manhattan but not up there in that part of Manhattan. I'm glad you finally made it!
I'm sorry you don't actually know enough that you can only cite the elevated lines in Chicago, and that you had to drop London from your list because you don't actually know what you're saying! I like a good argument as well as anyone, but a good argument usually require (surprise, surprise!) good arguments. You're going to tell the people who've engineered successful systems around the world that they obviously hadn't considered the opinions of advocatusdiavoli of c-d who simply feels that they must be wrong ("Chicago's L is dirty, dark and noisy! NYC got rid of some of theirs!" ad nauseum is an ironclad argument)? Sure! Please bring up something interesting and rational! Good discussions bringing up salient points (pros and cons) are good and useful for forums.
Are you looking forward to what the subways and their stations are going to be like in August in NYC? Do you know just how much of a crapfest the Tube is during the summer?
The rep she sent me was very derogatory against mexicans.
I'm not saying this is necessarily true, but she didn't seem like the type. You know that people can give reps and sign off with whatever screenname/handle that they want, yea?
LOL. Goodnight little guys. This thread has just gone from dumb to retarded thank to you three. I can't even do anything but laugh now. I already posted my answer: Chicago over NYC. Have a nice life. Sing a song. The End.
LMAO
Yeah ok you make a fool out of yourself. You should know that how can you be racist? Wait till one day a Mexican is nomited to become the president of the United States. Then you will see who is the dirty mexican.
First you complain that I put you on ignore, then you complain that I talk to you. .
Yeah, you broke my heart:
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Originally Posted by advocatusdiavoli
Thanks Buddy, I appreciate it since I ma tired talking to someone who never set foot outside of Chicago.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitown2pa
You really care about me that much, Dementor? Perhaps you need to spend more time interacting with people and less online and at the petting zoos. BigLake hit you right on the head..
Alright, now let me read your post. What's your point here?
No, there are no elevated tracks in Columbus Circle. That was a good question, though. The 'L' through Downtown Chicago is great. It's beautiful, efficient, and fun to ride. It is unique and affordable. .
Unique, because Manhattan was affluent and smart enough to put the trains underground some 80 years ago Why is Chicago always so far behind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitown2pa
Oh, and before I go, you need to know something that will help your debating skills in the future. When you accuse me of holding my opinions solely because I haven't been anywhere else, that's a poison-the-well argument, and it is a fallacy. In other words, it is invalid. It does nothing to prove your point or disprove mine, and it is irrelevant to the issue being discussed. Where I have traveled has nothing to do with the merits of Chicago's elevated train. It would be like me saying "Chicago is better than New York because Dementor lives with his mom in White Plains, NY, where he watches Justice League cartoons all afternoon and eats cotton candy when his mom will buy him some." See? Completely unrelated.
Also, if you are going to poison the well, try and use something that is true, instead of making things up. For example, you accused me of never having traveled anywhere else. Of course, that is inaccurate. I used to live on the East Coast (in Harrisburg and near Pittsburgh) and traveled to other cities very frequently. So I have lived other places. I have never lived in New York , but that's okay. Neither have you.
Spare us all your pitiful personal attacks, if you do not have any arguments then do not post at all. Learn to discuss in a civilized urban way and only then discuss urban civilization.
Last edited by advocatusdiavoli; 05-28-2009 at 01:49 AM..
New York has some great architecture. Overall however I prefer Chicago over New York.
Instead of putting down New York, I just wanted to show a few examples of why I like Chicago's architecture better.
I prefer some of NYC's neighborhood architecture over some of Chicago's. But I think Chicago's skyline is the 2nd most beautiful skyline in the world (behind Hong Kong).
^ You know, I think I tend to agree with you...I prefer NYC residential architecture better, but I think Chicago has a slight edge when it comes to highrise/downtown architecture.
I usually don't like the McMansions that are being built all over the LP, Lakeview, Wicker Park Areas. Have you ever been down the 1900-2000 blocks of Burling? Literally every house on those blocks is New 6000 sq ft McMansion.
^ You know, I think I tend to agree with you...I prefer NYC residential architecture better, but I think Chicago has a slight edge when it comes to highrise/downtown architecture.
I usually don't like the McMansions that are being built all over the LP, Lakeview, Wicker Park Areas. Have you ever been down the 1900-2000 blocks of Burling? Literally every house on those blocks is New 6000 sq ft McMansion.
No but I'll have to check them out. There's a little corridor right by my place though that has some very, very cool places. Check out the two streets west of Waveland in between Irving Park and Grace. Feels like your in a different country.
No but I'll have to check them out. There's a little corridor right by my place though that has some very, very cool places. Check out the two streets west of Waveland in between Irving Park and Grace. Feels like your in a different country.
Waveland is an East-West Street...Do you mean Wilton? I know there are some cool houses on that block between IP and Grace.
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Why is Chicago always so far behind?
Some pictures
