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where is there Big Ten losing popularity? certainly not in Big Ten country. which, quite frankly, is what the Big Ten really cares about. The Big Ten has no desire to be the SEC. We have an alternative for it in B10 country; it's called the NFL.
the Big Ten and the Pac Ten, back in the day, were the last to join the BCS. they really weren't all that keen about it. in fact, they were happy to end the season in Pasadena which is where both felt it should be ended.
so, I don't know, Dt, maybe you are right. Maybe the Big Ten is losing popularity in other regions. but we don't really care. we love the conference in its old footprint and we love the academics as much as we do the athletics. and, yes, you'd be right to say the B10 will no doubt never be able to truly compete with the SEC. and that' fine with us. the national championship may be nice, but it is just one factor of the game we love.
Population shift in this country has been moving to the southeast for over a decade.
And the bold part is one thing that really scares ND..
Population shift in this country has been moving to the southeast for over a decade.
And the bold part is one thing that really scares ND..
The problem is ND's fan base is shrinking.
THey used to be popular among Catholics, espcially Irish ones, and still are but nowhere to the same extent. With the decline of their athletics, the decline of faith, younger people supporting teams, etc in 30 years they will just be another school. At that point they will get no special deals.
Population shift in this country has been moving to the southeast for over a decade.
And the bold part is one thing that really scares ND..
Notre Dame can be scared by whatever it wants. It all seems pretty irrelevant to me. You seem convinced that college football (and college athletics in general) are now based on markets and their size. You look at them in terms of MLB where the New York market will always produce better teams than Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Kansas City and any small market team.
In your scenario, however, the NFL is the anti-college football place. the NFL is democratic in the sense that t.v. and licensing revenues are shared.
yes, the southeast is a growing part of the nation, but it is also the most crazed football region in the nation. For all of California's growth down through the years, it would never be the place where demographics lead to dominance in the game. No matter how many folks you crowd into California, it was never going to be a college football stronghold like the south (in fact, all sports are viewed more casually there than in other parts of the nation).
Dx, if bottom lines are all that matter, if college teams rearrange themselves over the map (with the SEC stretching from Florida to Missouri, the ACC from Boston to Miami, the Big Ten from Penn State to Nebraska, the Big 12 from WVU to Iowa State to Texas, and the Pac 12 from Colorado to Stanford), endlessly bigger stadiums, endlessly more money, endlessly killing off all tradition, and offering up the professional, commercial product that has nothing to do with colleges and the game that is (was) played on campus...
WTF are we even interested in this game?
Think about that when Notre Dame is playing Wake or Duke instead of U-M or MSU.
THey used to be popular among Catholics, espcially Irish ones, and still are but nowhere to the same extent. With the decline of their athletics, the decline of faith, younger people supporting teams, etc in 30 years they will just be another school. At that point they will get no special deals.
The days of rudy are over.
Which is one reason why they have avoided the Big Ten, they want to continue playing teams across
the country and stay in the mind of potential recruits as long as they can.
---------------
And I am not going to quote that long reply....
It has nothing to do with market size, it has everything to do with when kids are growing up and
where ND will play their games.
Subscriber fees are more important then market size, but that's another topic that doesn't concern what ND has done so far.
I think Notre Dame did a wonderful job for itself in literally buying time by its affiliation with the ACC. But the long run is still a question.
Here's something we do know: the Big Ten did not offer the type of deal to Notre Dame that the ACC did. The Big Ten made it clear that it is an association of equals and nobody would have a special status.
what if, however, the B10 did put a similar offer to ND as the ACC did? My guess is that it would have been every bit as attractive as the ACC deal, arguably more. The B10, through traditional alone (even without its other pluses) would have been a far more prestigious move for the Irish. and playing opponents in its own backyard (you can't get more heart-of-Big-Ten country than northern Indiana) with traditional rivals like U-M, MSU, and Purdue, plus those attractive OSU-ND match ups and the other rivalries that ND has maintained down through the years (Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, and in-state IU have all had their series with the Irish).
as of now, ND has established a place for itself. the ACC hook up ends the problem of scheduling games as an independent.
but how long will this deal last? and what exactly is the ACC getting out of it other than the power of the name Notre Dame?
and most importantly, what happens if the nature of the game changes again, past the 4 team mini-tournament that will soon be instituted? Point being: at some juncture of time, the NCAA finals in football could easily be set up to offer slots to conference champions, leaving independents out.
Notre Dame needs to think about that future, too, especially in light of the current ACC deal. If the Irish were forced to give up their independence, they need to think which conference they truly would want to join. I suspect given that option, they would choose the B10. The B10, certainly based on what will happen to the Purdue, U-M, MSU series, may want no part of the Irish.
We are knee deep in the crazy notion that conference footprints need to expand. Time may prove this to be the worst idea to come along in the history of the game. Regional associations promote rivalry and sense of identity (and simple t.v. revenue sharing can eleminate the insane need to expand footprints). ND may be better off in the long run being a part of its own region, the midwest, in that region's conference, the Big Ten.
I wish otherwise though. I'm afraid #16 will be Navy, ND's oldest rival, as a favor to ND.
ACC might have to even expand further to stay relevant. In the new playoff system if they dont get an automatic bid they really dont have any teams good enough to make it. They might need to grab as many East coast markets as they cant to try and ensure they get an automatic qualifier despite not being good enough in football to earn it.
So the Orange Bowl will get the ACC champ (not likely to be in the playoff unless the Noles regain prominence on a consistent basis) vs. Notre Dame/B1G#3-4/SEC#4-5?
THey used to be popular among Catholics, espcially Irish ones, and still are but nowhere to the same extent. With the decline of their athletics, the decline of faith, younger people supporting teams, etc in 30 years they will just be another school. At that point they will get no special deals.
The days of rudy are over.
I know a lot of Catholics my age (34), myself included, who despise Notre Dame. My faith has nothing to do with it. That they have done next to nothing significant in 25 years and still parade themselves as the standard of college football is laughable. Get a clue. They've been losing their grip on national relevance and popularity for an entire generation, and someday their thinking will move beyond the backward attitude that's been allowed to prevail in South Bend.
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Leftovers...
