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This is an outdated way of thinking and colleges are going to have to reform to the times. There is no longer the "slack" in the economy to allow one to sit out for years in a training program. Today's economy is much more focused on subsistence and old models like this don't allow for that.
Perhaps I'm a pessimist, but unless the US goes socialist I don't see our higher education system reforming to accommodate the poor. College is such a money suck and I figure the whole point of allowing everyone and anyone to get a loan is to take people's money. In reality it's only the affluent who can and will be able to afford an education in the future. Isn't that the way it's always been? My co has various financial advisors come in for financial planning and the college planning discussions were scary. These people were predicting tripling college costs in the next 20 years. If kids in future don't have their parents planning for them I don't see how they'll be able to afford college at all. I can't imagine the college bubble going on indefinitely.
This is an outdated way of thinking and colleges are going to have to reform to the times. There is no longer the "slack" in the economy to allow one to sit out for years in a training program. Today's economy is much more focused on subsistence and old models like this don't allow for that.
Well, there's your answer! Make the colleges change! A PT program is 3 years, full time, 36 months. If you made it part-time, how long would it take you to actually get the degree? Six years at half time! You could not earn enough, part time to do more than pay your rent and maybe tuition. Talk about opportunity cost! Better to to bite the bullet, do it while you're still young and unencumbered with kids and such and pay off the loans.
Well, there's your answer! Make the colleges change! A PT program is 3 years, full time, 36 months. If you made it part-time, how long would it take you to actually get the degree? Six years at half time! You could not earn enough, part time to do more than pay your rent and maybe tuition. Talk about opportunity cost! Better to to bite the bullet, do it while you're still young and unencumbered with kids and such and pay off the loans.
I can't defer life for three years for additional education and most can't either. I'd love to retrain, but sometimes you have to realize it's just not possible. I'm in my mid 20s and my only significant debt is an auto loan. If I can't go back, few will be able to, and it is financial suicide to roll all those living expenses into nondischaragable debt. If you think going back to school, deferring job responsibilities for years, and rolling everything into nearly six figure student loans with just a shot of doing better on the side is acceptable, especially in today's economy where it's likely you'll end up underpaid or unemployed no matter what you do, that seems to me to be a very naive and risky move, and far riskier than doing nothing at all. But if she found success, congratulations. It's just not possible for me or a lot of others given life's responsibilities.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
Perhaps I'm a pessimist, but unless the US goes socialist I don't see our higher education system reforming to accommodate the poor. College is such a money suck and I figure the whole point of allowing everyone and anyone to get a loan is to take people's money. In reality it's only the affluent who can and will be able to afford an education in the future. Isn't that the way it's always been? My co has various financial advisors come in for financial planning and the college planning discussions were scary. These people were predicting tripling college costs in the next 20 years. If kids in future don't have their parents planning for them I don't see how they'll be able to afford college at all. I can't imagine the college bubble going on indefinitely.
If these tuition increases continue, many colleges will reform or end up folding. If you take the broadest definition of my combined statistical area, you might get 700k people with a demographic that skews older. In this area, you have at least these institutions.
1) East TN State University
2) Milligan College
3) King College
4) Tusculum College
5) Emory & Henry College
6) Virginia Intermont
7) UVA-Wise
8) Northeast State Community College
9) Virginia Highlands Community College
10) Mountain Empire Community College
You have all these colleges serving a relatively small amount of younger people in an area where a college education isn't useful or required for jobs other than health care or education. These colleges are fighting for pieces of a shrinking pie, and there are just too many colleges for the need.
Many of the community colleges are inexpensive, provide more practical training, and have short duration programs scheduled for evenings. This is the model for the future. A lot of the "fat" from the LA schools is removed. Flagship state universities like UT-Knoxville or UVA-Charlottesville aren't going anywhere. Ivies and top private schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, and Stanford have a well-established brand that's not going anywhere.
The real "squeeze" is going to be in the four year, liberal arts schools without the high academic standards and high level connections. These institutions are charging a substantial premium over state schools for an education that may be only marginally better, if at all. When there was more slack in the economy, students from these schools could get jobs to pay down loans easier, costs weren't as high to begin with, and donations were higher. I can see a lot of those four year schools in my area combining or folding outright, even though many have been around for over a century.
Virginia Intermont is merging with another school.
A college education is an opportunity not a guarantee.
It does not give you immunity from an economic recession or depression, but those that have them tend to weather the storm better than those that don't.
I can't defer life for three years for additional education and most can't either. I'd love to retrain, but sometimes you have to realize it's just not possible. I'm in my mid 20s and my only significant debt is an auto loan. If I can't go back, few will be able to, and it is financial suicide to roll all those living expenses into nondischaragable debt. If you think going back to school, deferring job responsibilities for years, and rolling everything into nearly six figure student loans with just a shot of doing better on the side is acceptable, especially in today's economy where it's likely you'll end up underpaid or unemployed no matter what you do, that seems to me to be a very naive and risky move, and far riskier than doing nothing at all. But if she found success, congratulations. It's just not possible for me or a lot of others given life's responsibilities.
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Why not? You're young. It's a shame you think you're stuck in whatever career path you're in for forever in your mid-20s. Who said anything about six figure debt? And "just a shot" at doing better? With a BA in biology, one's options are limited, Braunwyn's examples notwithstanding. With A DPT, there is lots of opportunity.
If these tuition increases continue, many colleges will reform or end up folding. If you take the broadest definition of my combined statistical area, you might get 700k people with a demographic that skews older. In this area, you have at least these institutions.
I think that's exactly what they would do like any business. If there is no profit, or perhaps no significant profit, they will fold. I think the student loan paradigm we currently have needs to come to an end and I think it will. Student loans shouldn't be any different than any other loan. Many students wouldn't qualify for exorbitant loans and if they didn't get them in the first place they wouldn't be going into crazy debt. The current student loan bubble likely wouldn't be happening so perhaps costs wouldn't be going up, especially costs as predicted for the future.
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Many of the community colleges are inexpensive, provide more practical training, and have short duration programs scheduled for evenings. This is the model for the future. A lot of the "fat" from the LA schools is removed. Flagship state universities like UT-Knoxville or UVA-Charlottesville aren't going anywhere. Ivies and top private schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, and Stanford have a well-established brand that's not going anywhere.
Again, I agree. And I think only the very best students, academically, should be going to university. Community college is affordable and provides the kind of training in fields where people can survive well. One of my girlfriends, for example, was a surgical tech for 5 years (2 year degree program), then went back to become a first assistant in the OR. The course work was easy enough for her to handle while working a job and what was really important was her clinicals. She makes $26/hr + whatever overtime, which is almost as much as she wants. Given what she paid for school, which was nothing since she qualified for state aid at the time, that's pretty good.
Why not? You're young. It's a shame you think you're stuck in whatever career path you're in for forever in your mid-20s. Who said anything about six figure debt? And "just a shot" at doing better? With a BA in biology, one's options are limited, Braunwyn's examples notwithstanding. With A DPT, there is lots of opportunity.
I want to say that I do agree with you by and large. When I was an undergrad I had no plan to stop with just a BS because I wasn't going into nursing, teaching, engineering, or something where a BS would be good enough in a technical field. I don't see it any differently than a LA degree for the most part.
College degrees, if from a good school and paired with moderate accomplishment, open doors. However, having graduated from an Ivy League school, I will freely admit that I would encourage any child I might have to pursue a vo-tech degree in addition to a college degree. I know lots of unemployed folks with pretty spiffy degrees, but my ex with certifications for welding and driving a forklift has rarely gone without a job for more than a couple weeks.
I also have a cousin who has never gotten her degree but has worked her way into a solid position with an international company through her amazing gifts and her terrifying capacity for determination. She is terribly valuable to them, but I know that she is not being paid what she would be if she had that same little piece of paper that I have. It's a shame, and I am very frustrated on her behalf, even though I am so so so proud of what she has accomplished.
If you want to be a PT, that is what you have to do. You cannot do this program part time, and they discouraged the students from working. In reality, it would have been extremely difficult to work once the clinical rotations started, as they usually involved 40 hrs a week in and of themselves.
There's a reason certain medical and law programs either discourage you from working or flat out require that you not work. You're busy working your ***** off at school studying like a dog! You study far more than 40 hours a week. Plus you have clinics, labs, and the actual classes you're taking. The schools are actually trying to help you succeed. I've seen so many people argue with the schools over these policies. Then they get a few weeks into the semester and they're so far behind that they haven't even really begun the course load.
I have a cousin who has a full time job and a 3 year old. She just enrolled in nursing school. She's always whining that's she exhausted from her son and work. Somehow she thinks she will get great grades and do extraordinarily well in nursing school while working full time and taking care of a toddler. She's already b*tching and moaning that she will not be done with work and school until 9:30 pm on Fridays. She hasn't even started school yet! It's not like she doesn't know anyone who is a nurse. Her sister graduated earlier this year and for 3 years we heard how she worked like a dog. I wish her luck, but I totally do NOT see this working out for her. Oh and that job she has that is sooooo exhausting every single day....she's a receptionist at a doctor's office. Wait until she's out of her comfy roller chair and on her feet for 12+ hours! Oh I can't wait to watch this unravel on Facebook.
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