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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
True for both my degree and my daughters, as well as friends we both had in college. Even missing one class in a sequence could put you a year behind in graduating. One important lesson is to watch the sequence closely because some courses are only offered once a year or sometimes on demand. For my degree some of the upper division courses were actually only offered every two years so you had to plan them in when offered (once every two years meant everyone had a chance sometime in college to take it).
Yup, twice I had to take summer classes pre-approved for transfer credits because I couldn't get into a class the previous semester that I needed for the series to continue in the fall semester. Better than sticking around another semester!
We are obviously talking past each other here. Let me try once more-
A student goes to CC for two years and earns 60 credits, ALL of which are courses a four year college of his/her choice accepts. However, the major the student chooses at the 4 year school does not include all those courses for its program, including electives. Surely as a college instructor/professor you are aware that some "electives" must be in certain disciplines, some must be "upper level" (not freshman/sophomore level), etc. There may also be some lower level courses required for the major that the CC didn't offer, or if it did, the student didn't take. So the student may have to take more than 60 credits at the 4 year college to get the degree, despite all of his/her CC courses transferring.
There is a mistaken notion that the first two years of college are the same for almost every major. This is untrue. Usually, one starts taking courses in their intended major freshman year. If one doesn't make a decision on a major until the end of sophomore year (usually the latest one can do so) it takes longer, even at the same school.
OK, I’ll play. Tell me about gen ed classes that don’t don’t fulfill gen ed requirements because of a student’s major.
OK, I’ll play. Tell me about gen ed classes that don’t don’t fulfill gen ed requirements because of a student’s major.
Good Grief! You are one stubborn hombre!
Mod note: University website, no copyright issues.
Here are the Gen Ed requirements for the University of Colorado for a degree in the College of Arts and Sciences: https://www.colorado.edu/artsandscie...n-requirements
See also: https://www.colorado.edu/artsandscie...ls-requirement Skills Requirement 1. Foreign Language (third-level proficiency)
"All students are required to demonstrate, while in high school, third-level proficiency in a single modern or classical foreign language. Students who have not met this requirement at the time of matriculation will have a MAPS deficiency. They may make up the deficiency only by passing an appropriate third-semester college course that is part of a three-course sequence of at least 12 semester credit hours or by passing a CU Boulder approved proficiency examination." So, if you need to take foreign language classes and you haven't done so in high school OR AT THE CC, you have to take 12 credit hours or pass a proficiency exam. Unless you are fluent in another language, you'd have a hard time passing a proficiency exam if you've never studied a foreign language.
"2. Quantitative Reasoning and Mathematical Skills (QRMS) (3 – 6 credit hours)
To fulfill the QRMS Gen Ed Skills requirement, students must do one of the following:
pass one of the approved QRMS courses or sequences of courses
pass any 3 credits of mathematics courses numbered MATH 1300 or higher or applied mathematics courses numbered APPM 1350 or higher
pass the CU-Boulder QRMS proficiency exam"
No math course at CC, take math course at CU.
3. Written Communication (3 lower-division and 3 upper-division credit hours)
Note need for upper-division credits, not available at CC.
"Courses taken to fulfill this requirement MAY NOT also count toward the Distribution or Diversity Requirements."
"Distribution Requirement For the Distribution requirement, students must pass a minimum of 12 credits in each of the three Arts & Sciences divisions (Arts & Humanities, Social Sciences, and Natural Sciences). At least four different course prefixes must be represented in a student’s Distribution requirement coursework. No more than two lower-division (1000- and 2000-level) courses with the same course prefix may count toward the Distribution requirement.
As part of, or in addition to, the 12 credits in the Natural Sciences division, students must meet the Natural Sciences lab requirement. (1- and 2-credit NS lab courses are excepted from the restriction to two lower-division courses with the same course prefix counting toward the Distribution requirement.)"
Need upper division courses.
Diversity Requirement
7. United States Perspective (3 credits)
8. Global perspective (3 credits)
Courses taken to fulfill this requirement MAY also count toward the Distribution Requirement.
So to answer your question, if you took more than two lower-division courses in the distribution requirement areas, they would not count for distribution, but simply be "free electives". If you took more than one math course, and didn't need it for your major, it would be a "free elective". And so on. Plus you may have a lot of extra courses to take.
YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE RIGHT COURSES TO MAKE IT WORK.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-20-2018 at 08:31 PM..
Mod note: University website, no copyright issues.
Here are the Gen Ed requirements for the University of Colorado for a degree in the College of Arts and Sciences: https://www.colorado.edu/artsandscie...n-requirements
See also: https://www.colorado.edu/artsandscie...ls-requirement Skills Requirement 1. Foreign Language (third-level proficiency)
"All students are required to demonstrate, while in high school, third-level proficiency in a single modern or classical foreign language. Students who have not met this requirement at the time of matriculation will have a MAPS deficiency. They may make up the deficiency only by passing an appropriate third-semester college course that is part of a three-course sequence of at least 12 semester credit hours or by passing a CU Boulder approved proficiency examination." So, if you need to take foreign language classes and you haven't done so in high school OR AT THE CC, you have to take 12 credit hours or pass a proficiency exam. Unless you are fluent in another language, you'd have a hard time passing a proficiency exam if you've never studied a foreign language.
"2. Quantitative Reasoning and Mathematical Skills (QRMS) (3 – 6 credit hours)
To fulfill the QRMS Gen Ed Skills requirement, students must do one of the following:
pass one of the approved QRMS courses or sequences of courses
pass any 3 credits of mathematics courses numbered MATH 1300 or higher or applied mathematics courses numbered APPM 1350 or higher
pass the CU-Boulder QRMS proficiency exam"
No math course at CC, take math course at CU.
3. Written Communication (3 lower-division and 3 upper-division credit hours)
Note need for upper-division credits, not available at CC.
"Courses taken to fulfill this requirement MAY NOT also count toward the Distribution or Diversity Requirements."
"Distribution Requirement For the Distribution requirement, students must pass a minimum of 12 credits in each of the three Arts & Sciences divisions (Arts & Humanities, Social Sciences, and Natural Sciences). At least four different course prefixes must be represented in a student’s Distribution requirement coursework. No more than two lower-division (1000- and 2000-level) courses with the same course prefix may count toward the Distribution requirement.
As part of, or in addition to, the 12 credits in the Natural Sciences division, students must meet the Natural Sciences lab requirement. (1- and 2-credit NS lab courses are excepted from the restriction to two lower-division courses with the same course prefix counting toward the Distribution requirement.)"
Need upper division courses.
Diversity Requirement
7. United States Perspective (3 credits)
8. Global perspective (3 credits)
Courses taken to fulfill this requirement MAY also count toward the Distribution Requirement.
So to answer your question, if you took more than two lower-division courses in the distribution requirement areas, they would not count for distribution, but simply be "free electives". If you took more than one math course, and didn't need it for your major, it would be a "free elective". And so on. Plus you may have a lot of extra courses to take.
YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE RIGHT COURSES TO MAKE IT WORK.
RIF.
If a student takes courses at the CC that fulfill the general education requirements of the university, and transfers those courses to the university under an articulation agreement, nothing is lost. In the highlighted portion above, you’re saying that if courses above and beyond what is required to fill a gen ed requirement are taken, the excess courses are free electives. Agreed. And I have never said nor suggested anything contrary to that. That is the case if the “excess”courses are taken at the CC or at the university.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
We are obviously talking past each other here. Let me try once more-
A student goes to CC for two years and earns 60 credits, ALL of which are courses a four year college of his/her choice accepts. However, the major the student chooses at the 4 year school does not include all those courses for its program, including electives. Surely as a college instructor/professor you are aware that some "electives" must be in certain disciplines, some must be "upper level" (not freshman/sophomore level), etc. There may also be some lower level courses required for the major that the CC didn't offer, or if it did, the student didn't take. So the student may have to take more than 60 credits at the 4 year college to get the degree, despite all of his/her CC courses transferring.
The highlighted portion above is irrelevant to the point that I made. I am talking about courses that fulfill the gen ed requirements. If transfered under a articulation agreement, those courses will fill the gen ed requirements at the university, regardless of the student’s major.
You are arguing about a point that I never made, while not understanding the point that I did make.
...
The highlighted portion above is irrelevant to the point that I made. I am talking about courses that fulfill the gen ed requirements. If transfered under a articulation agreement, those courses will fill the gen ed requirements at the university, regardless of the student’s major.
You are arguing about a point that I never made, while not understanding the point that I did make.
I think the problem is you're making a point that while correct in the very specific definition, is different from the common understanding that most parents and students have going into CC. Once you've been through college, you know and understand these subtleties. But so many students and parents looking at CC are first time students and don't understand the difference between Gen Ed and Electives, or upper and lower division.
Example, my local CC advertises very highly about how you can take an AA and transfer in the credits to any college in the state. But only in footnotes does it reference the fact that the state flagship does not guarantee acceptance, or that you must look at the sequence of courses of the college you plan to transfer too.
An example, I just looked at the AA degree program for the local CC and compared to the college my daughter attended. It would meet some, but not all her Gen Ed requirements, an in several cases basically, as Katarina pointed out, have more courses in some areas than required that didn't fit within the program. The net result was the Gen Eds would excess to the total course requirement while simultaneously not meeting all of the specific Gen Ed requirements. It was even worse in the critical program requirements. The science and math courses required for the AA degree at the CC would only meet the freshman year requirements. Which in the end means a student would transfer in as a junior in terms of total courses, but a sophomore in terms of requirements met.
That's the part most of the non college public misunderstands about Gen Ed requirements.
If a student takes courses at the CC that fulfill the general education requirements of the university, and transfers those courses to the university under an articulation agreement, nothing is lost. In the highlighted portion above, you’re saying that if courses above and beyond what is required to fill a gen ed requirement are taken, the excess courses are free electives. Agreed. And I have never said nor suggested anything contrary to that. That is the case if the “excess”courses are taken at the CC or at the university.
The highlighted portion above is irrelevant to the point that I made. I am talking about courses that fulfill the gen ed requirements. If transfered under a articulation agreement, those courses will fill the gen ed requirements at the university, regardless of the student’s major.
You are arguing about a point that I never made, while not understanding the point that I did make.
Yes, you have said to the contrary. Even after I explained it, ineptly as it might have been, that even with 60 credits from a CC all of which your 4 year college accepts, you may have to take more than 60 credits at the 4 year school to meet specific graduation requirements of your program. So you may graduate with 130, even 150 or so credits, from a program that requires 120 credits.
Yes, you have said to the contrary. Even after I explained it, ineptly as it might have been, that even with 60 credits from a CC all of which your 4 year college accepts, you may have to take more than 60 credits at the 4 year school to meet specific graduation requirements of your program. So you may graduate with 130, even 150 or so credits, from a program that requires 120 credits.
Just where do you teach that this never comes up?
But all this information is readily available at the CC. I knew before I took my classes which I needed for prerequisites and what would transfer. And that was 25 years ago when you had to actually open books to get information. As I said I had to take one extra semester and s summer course. I was admitted into the OT program before I had even taken the summer course, they just said it had to be completed with a C or better before September. Even with the extra semester, I saved tens of thousands of dollars. I think it’s a great route for many students, most especially those who don’t know what they want to “be” yet.
Yes, you have said to the contrary. Even after I explained it, ineptly as it might have been, that even with 60 credits from a CC all of which your 4 year college accepts, you may have to take more than 60 credits at the 4 year school to meet specific graduation requirements of your program. So you may graduate with 130, even 150 or so credits, from a program that requires 120 credits.
Just where do you teach that this never comes up?
No, I’ve never said any such thing. Quote me if you disagree.
The point, that you continue to miss, is very simple. If a student takes a course at a CC that fills a gen ed requirement at the university, and transfers that course to the university under an articulation agreement, it WILL fill the gen ed requirement at the university, regardless of the student’s major.
If the student takes 60 credits of courses at the CC that fill 60 credits of gen ed requirements at the university, and transfers those courses to the university under an articulation agreement, they WILL fill 60 credits of gen ed requirements at the university, regardless of the student’s major.
You have continued to try to steer the discussion to that of one simply taking random courses that do in fact transfer, but might not fill gen ed requirements. That is not an argument that I have made. Ever.
Since you want to call my qualifications into question. . . I have taught for 23 years at five universities in four different states. This comes up all the time, I know exactly what I’m talking about, and I’m 100% correct about this.
I have a BSN from the University of Pittsburgh and graduate credits from the University of Colorado. I chair an education committee for a public service organization, though I am speaking only for myself on CD. I follow education both in my county and in the Colorado state legislature.
I have a BSN from the University of Pittsburgh and graduate credits from the University of Colorado. I chair an education committee for a public service organization, though I am speaking only for myself on CD. I follow education both in my county and in the Colorado state legislature.
What do you have to do with admissions?
Admissions? Nothing. But I have 40+ advisees every semester, and we deal with this all the time.
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