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I think it's hard to see from other points of views because you are still in college and haven't experienced what life is like after graduation.
I know when I was in college life was pretty nice as I had little responsibilities other than studying and working part time. And that money from my PT job just went to shopping, clubbing, eating out etc. (Maybe for some books and car stuff too).
But once you graduate and are looking for a job, you only wish you had no student loan debt. But then it's too late. You may very well make a fabulous salary but what if that awesome salary comes at the age of 28. You still have 7 years of trying to manage your money/expenses while you are gaining experience and working your way up the career ladder.
And depending on the market, the salary you make initially may be disappointing and less than you hoped for. I graduated from an engineering school right when the dotcom bust happened and then 9/11 happened. It was really tough to find something.
Just try to be cautious with student loan debt (and any debt for that matter). Hearing how much student loan debt other people have, I was fortunate that mine was only 20K and the monthly payment was only 112/month at around 4%. I think I sort of lucked out also, because I didn't have a clue what I was doing when I signed all the paperwork for the student loan. I also had no idea what the breakdown would be monthly at the time as each year tuition kept increasing and my loan amounts kept going higher.
Best of luck to u!
trust me, I know it's not easy out there (I'm not some naive 18 year old who's at college for the first time ever). I don't expect to be rolling in dough post graduation, so made sure that if this is the degree I'm pursuing, I'd better make sure I'm not selling my soul to get it (w/ any luck, I'll end up w/ less than 15K in gov't loans post grad, probably closer to 10K. thankfully no private loans. I even already have a general idea of how much my loan repayments will be post-grad). but in the end, that's the risk I'm more than willing to take, as are many who seriously pursue these type of majors. contrary to what many here may think, we aren't ignorant of the world and realize we won't be making $100K a year post grad, yet we still choose to go ahead w/ it b/c (*gasp*) we actually enjoy it and want to do this (I know there are people idea that preach the idea of "get a degree in something that makes money, not something that makes you happy" line of thought. I don't).
what you say is very true however and, as much as this new law sounds great, I don't think it's going to help if students are still taking out massive loans. in the end, students need to REALLY weigh the risks and really think of the outcome of their decision (basically going along w/ what Reneeme said)
this being my second time around w/ school, I have a tiny bit of an advantage over some of my peers who are coming in w/ delusions of grandeur and success but do little to fulfill those delusions. a lot of professors keep stressing the point that everyone should do their homework when it comes to understanding financial aid, internships, and job searches, but few listen until it's too late.
This is what most people don't understand, and for sure I did not understand.
I graduated with college with $40k in student loans and even with a starting salary of 60k to start 3 years ago, paying the student loan IS a beyotch...
Now imagine a $40k student loan with 1/2 of the starting salary because you're a liberal arts major... not only student loan is a beyotch,,,... life is now also a beyotch...
I don't know. Personally, I haven't found student loans difficult to pay back at all...I only took government loans, though, nothing private, and I never consolidated anything with any private lender after the fact, either. My payment is reasonable, income contingent, and the amount I owe is less than I would owe on a new automobile/monthly payment is lower than the average car payment. As far as debt goes, it's a piece of cake. Neither loan repayment nor life has been a beyotch. And I was a liberal arts major. And I work in a modestly paying field. It's still not a problem. I actually didn't even have a problem making my payments when I was a fledgling newspaper reporter and bringing in about $19k a year my first year.
Honestly, my student loan repayment terms are the most flexible and reasonable of any financial agreement in which I've ever been involved. All debt repayment should be that easy and fairly done. Currently, I make a reasonable income, I'm not rolling in excess dough, but my student loan payment is one of my smaller fixed expenses. Coming from a financially conservative family, I was concerned about the feasibility of paying back x amount in loans, going in, especially since I intended to be working in the field of education and knew the pay scale that entailed. I did my homework, and researched it. My school's student loan counseling staff assured me that what I was looking at could be set up in a way that would be manageable, and it definitely has been. No complaints. Best expenditure I've ever made. I would never advise somebody to skimp on the education they feel lis important to them out of fear of student loans.
this being my second time around w/ school, I have a tiny bit of an advantage over some of my peers who are coming in w/ delusions of grandeur and success but do little to fulfill those delusions. a lot of professors keep stressing the point that everyone should do their homework when it comes to understanding financial aid, internships, and job searches, but few listen until it's too late.
On my first trip through college I didn't see it, but now I definitely see the delusions of grandeur. On the flip side, I also see many students who do not have a clue as to what they are doing or why. And to me, that is the problem. If only those students who want to go to college went while those who are not sure/think that it is a birth-right/etc. stayed out than student loans would not be so much of an issue. It seems to me that those who complain the loudest about student loans are those that felt (feel) that college was a waste of time. I am sure that someone on here will kindly inform me that I am wrong, but I call them like I see them.
In regards to internships, you are correct. A classmate of mine is doing an internship this summer through WHOI and he had to go down there last week, so a few of us tagged along. While there we met with the R/V coordinator and she gave us a tour of the place. During the tour, she asked us if we applied for any of the internships, or if we planned to in the future. She has been doing her job for twenty years and informed us that those who do the internships are the ones who get the jobs. She said that every year she sees numerous graduates who did not do internships spend the next two to four years after graduation having a hard time finding employment.
I am new to this blog and after reading all of this I just would like to make a few comments. I am a 30 year old nurse and am currently attending Anesthesia school and building a mountain of debt. I do not agree with distributing student loans based on major or GPA, although I have a 3.68 GPA and am in a major who make in the six figures on the average. I would like to also address the following comments made by some of you:
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It's hard to take you seriously as an aspiring writer when you don't start sentences with a capital letter...
I agree with User_ID on this one. If somebody wants to be a cardiologist, they need to borrow a lot more than a potential cosmetologist. An engineer needs more than a machinist. Basket weaving majors have their place in society, but encouraging people with government incentives to go into debt for a dead end career isn't kind to the student who will graduate into a field without decent job prospects, and it isn't good public policy.
Comments like this made from an adult that is directed at someone for no other reason than to make fun of them makes it difficult to take them serious.
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It is a little annoying, that and the short hand. You'd think someone that is a writer would be in the habit of writing correctly.
IMO, comments like this used to criticize someone's writing ability kinda gets turned around on the person making the comment when they write things like this:
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You disagree because you'd get less money. Come back when you are finished and in the work force and lets see how you fell.
referring to the last word, is that supposed to be fail, feel, or are you thinking she is going to fall down at some point? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I think everybody's view has some valid points. I think it could be a little narcissistic to believe that your opinion about student loans is the only and best way.
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Because unlike liberal arts majors, we study our asses off, and hence society values and pays us more due to our skills. This is a fact based on statistical actual data. If eevee can't understand this simple thing, you're gonna have a hard time working in whatever & wherever you will after graduation
In response to this comment, I can tell that this person is either not thinking about his comments before posting them, or this person just simply has no clue...In my opinion, liberal arts type classes are more difficult for me than my general chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, and calculus classes where. The reason is that I had no interest in creative writing, literature and such classes and so It was more difficult to make myself study for them. I do not agree with people who rate one another based on their profession, but then that is the way society is. Everyone worships celebrities and the wealthy. Their are students in my class who think they are God's gift to the world because the are in Anesthesia school and I think it's pathetic to have that kind of attitude. The government gives away money like "candy" to people who are not even citizens, and yes I am referring to grants for college, and yet some of you have the opinion that some majors should get more than others based on major, GPA, etc........hell I had to have above a 3.4 just to get an interview for Anesthesia school, and I am more concerned about the guy, who was not a citizen, who while standing in line behind me at the business office at school was bragging about his grant while I had to take out a personal loan to put with my financial aid loans to cover my tuition. I think the focus should be on not giving every non citizen student free grant money for school and distributing that money among the students who are citizens.. I'm not trying to start a blogging war with any of you, I just wanted to show everyone how we need to quit fighting among ourselves and pull together as citizens to fight for our rights as citizens and fight against the government for giving students who are non citizens financial aid for school who do not have to worry about paying the money back because they get grants and do not need loans. Maybe there should be a thread on how the government should distribute grants to non citizen students......lol Would that be based on major, GPA, what their favorite color is, etc.....
Last edited by CRNA2b; 07-17-2009 at 06:21 PM..
Reason: added a comment
As for Morgan, if she had know what kind of debt she would be carrying after she earned her degrees, she might have done some things differently.
Oh, good...more help for people who don't think out their decisions before they make them.
How old was this person when they were expected to make these HUGE financial decisions? 17? 18? What were you doing when you were that age? Smoking pot? Getting drunk every weekend? Chasing girls? Doing other silly things that young adults do?
Do you see my point? When you're 17 or 18, you don't know what to expect 4 or 5 years down the road when you graduate. Most of these kids don't have people lending them sound financial advice. Rather, you have financial aide officers at these schools promoting these loans like it's free money. Hey, it's either take the loan money or drop out of college. You drop out of college, you're looked at as a failure. So, the choice seems fairly obvious when you're that young. Take the money.
This is what most people don't understand, and for sure I did not understand.
I graduated with college with $40k in student loans and even with a starting salary of 60k to start 3 years ago, paying the student loan IS a beyotch...
Now imagine a $40k student loan with 1/2 of the starting salary because you're a liberal arts major... not only student loan is a beyotch,,,... life is now also a beyotch...
Key word: starting salary. So your first few years may be tough. Big deal. You did it in college, what's another few years??? Your salary will most likely go up over your long career. Unless of course you fail to do anything productive with your life like, hmm, I don't know, add some valuable job skills. Those are the people that crack me up. 20 years after receiving their degree, and they're still working fast food. Then they come on here complaining, "boo hoo...my degree didn't do anything for me...liberal arts is a joke," as if they are representative of all degree holders. Nah, it's just that you apparently suck at improving yourself and/or interviewing for better jobs.
It doesn't do me any good. I've been making payments faithfully for 8 years while working in public service, but they don't count what has happened in the past. I just put my loans in deferment; I finish graduate school in 3-4 more years and at that point, I'm not going to slowly make payment over 10 more years, hopefully I will be able to pay them off within a few years.
crna... I fully agree with you... I would more than willing to go back to school if it would be paid for... but I don't qualify for anything, and reputable schools I think would be worth the money are too much going in debt over...even if I did go, there is def no guarantee of a higher paying job as IT has been dwindling the past decade.. I basically feel like I am wasting away brain cells at times...I'm sure I could do engineering or whatever to retool, I have the prereq math, but good luck convincing the gov that. Mostly it is a whats the point. I really don't even like the idea of working lol. A good portion of jobs in my field no longer exist in this country anymore, a good portion of the good jobs are taken by foreign citizens who ran up the tab on our dime, and another good portion of those jobs aren't even jobs, just contract work. I've considered going into public policy to go against stuff just like this... but, I'm sure that employer would want X degree, blah blah blah. They don't want smart minds, they want yes men.
Key word: starting salary. So your first few years may be tough. Big deal. You did it in college, what's another few years??? Your salary will most likely go up over your long career. Unless of course you fail to do anything productive with your life like, hmm, I don't know, add some valuable job skills. Those are the people that crack me up. 20 years after receiving their degree, and they're still working fast food. Then they come on here complaining, "boo hoo...my degree didn't do anything for me...liberal arts is a joke," as if they are representative of all degree holders. Nah, it's just that you apparently suck at improving yourself and/or interviewing for better jobs.
Agreed. Hell, I even did a national volunteer program for a year after college, where I didn't even make a wage, period...just a stipend for room and board and medical coverage. I went from that position to a paid position with my volunteer placement, and from there on to a cub reporting position that was pretty hardscrabble in terms of pay. That's life...you pay your dues for a couple of years and get a foot in the door. Wasn't a problem.
I couldn't agree more that the "I can't get a job and it's all the fault of liberal arts colleges and their selling of false dreams" camp missed the point somewhere along the way.
Key word: starting salary. So your first few years may be tough. Big deal. You did it in college, what's another few years??? Your salary will most likely go up over your long career.
This is spoken like someone that just graduated... It is actually a "big deal" as it will prevent you from doing a number of things and will inhibit your future.
Although your pay should increase over the years, it does not magically go up within a few years. The median salary data for most majors shows the same thing, namely that your salary goes up around 3% a year with a bit higher growth the first 15 years or so and slower after. Of course there will be exceptions in either direction, but planning on being the exception is foolish.
So, to just look at an example. The median starting salary for an English major is around $34k, let's suppose they have $40k in student loans. The monthly payment will be around $500/month or $6,000 a year (you could "consolidate" and stretch on the loans to 20 years...but you'll pay much more interest). So this person effectively has a starting salary of $28k, which will afford you very little in life. After 5 years their income should raise to around $39k, effectively $33k. Better, but still a very meager income and you won't be able to purchase a decent home etc.
Now in contrast the starting salary for Computer Science is around $52k, so a person with the same debt will have an effective starting salary of around $46k which is enough to live "okay" right out of college.
Regardless of how one feels about "liberal arts" degrees, its clear from a financial perspective that one should be very careful about using loans to pursue them. Its likely to lead a pretty tough existence for a number of years when you finish school.
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