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This is not true...and a computer science department is only going to be mildly interested in how many programming languages you claim to know (Awards in mathematics, etc would mean much more). One day as a computer science professor at CMU what they think of "self taught programmers", this is often one of their pet peeves.
Self-taught programmers, and students who win mathematics awards are a dime a dozen at CMU's CS department. Our CS department is extremely difficult to gain admission to, much more so than any of the other technical disciplines at CMU.
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Regardless, I don't recall wanderlust claiming he had any interest in computer science so why is this even the focus?
If wanderlust wants to go to college he is undoubtedly going to have to start at a community college and even if he gets straight As will still have a rather difficult time getting into CMU or any similar school. That is just the reality of the situation.
That is correct, however it's not due to his age.
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Anyhow, in terms of the girl in the article she realized something very important, namely:
"In 10th grade, Khadijah realized that if she wanted to succeed, she couldn't do it alone. She began to reach out to organizations and mentors: the Upward Bound Program, Higher Edge L.A., Experience Berkeley and South Central Scholars; teachers, counselors and college alumni networks. They helped her enroll in summer community college classes, gave her access to computers and scholarship applications and taught her about networking."
Its all about information, and she fortunately found some good people to help her before it was too late. Many aren't so lucky.
That's right. However, a lot of it was about hustle, and less about luck. Not many students are willing to take on the schedule she did, waking up at 4AM every day and returning at 11PM. She reached out to mentors who helped her. Many underprivileged students accept their fate in life and don't do anything to improve it, or don't care enough to. For example, notice how Wanderlust never reached out to CMU and asked about adult student admissions. He just assumed that because it wasn't on the website, he couldn't get in. That says a lot about his character - probably when he was younger, he led a rough life, so instead of hustling and reaching out, or even wanting to do any work, he would assume that he would have terrible career growth. A self-fulfilling prophecy, actually.
The first 8 seconds of this clip pretty much sums it up:
Self-taught programmers, and students who win mathematics awards are a dime a dozen at CMU's CS department.
This is not really true, you are painting a picture that you need to be already accomplished in the area to get into these programs and that is not accurate. After all, if true they would not start the students off in basic intro to programming courses. Have you even actually taken a computer science course at CMU or anywhere for that matter?
Also all of CMU's "technical" programs are top ranked, not just the computer science department.
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Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst
That is correct, however it's not due to his age.
Its due to what he did as a kid, which is just the point. But our education system is very much built around the "graduate from HS, then go to college" model. That is rather unfortunate in today's rapidly changing world.
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Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst
Many underprivileged students accept their fate in life and don't do anything to improve it, or don't care enough to.
Many underprivileged kids have no idea how to improve matters and that is the primary issue. The girl in your OP was able to find good mentors, not everyone knows where to look or is able to find them even if they look. There is also a catch 22 here, in order to select good mentors you already have to have at least a vague notion of who "knows his/her stuff" and who does not.
It really is all about what you know and when you're a kid that is highly correlated with what your parents, etc know. Kids that grew up underprivileged environments very often are filled with many misconception about matters. But it unfortunately extends beyond just misconceptions as key neurological development has also occurred in this environment and this has an everlasting effect on your abilities as an adult.
Anyhow, this issue goes well beyond "hustling" and I think the tacit implication being made in this thread is rather insulting (and inaccurate). Namely, that if kids from underprivileged environments don't get into good schools etc its because a lack of "hustle". Having "hustle" in itself is not the issue, it is directing your "hustle" in the appropriate direction that matters. The girl in the OP had people that were able to point her in the right direction, without that her hustle would not mean much.
Does the 20 year old kid that has risen in the ranks of MS 13 over 3 years lack hustle? No...its just directed in the things he knows.
This is not really true, you are painting a picture that you need to be already accomplished in the area to get into these programs and that is not accurate. After all, if true they would not start the students off in basic intro to programming courses. Have you even actually taken a computer science course at CMU or anywhere for that matter?
Also all of CMU's "technical" programs are top ranked, not just the computer science department.
Dime-a-dozen means that it is not uncommon. It doesn't mean it's a requirement to get in. It merely sends a signal (albeit a very strong one) that the applicant has some serious quantitative skills. All of CMU's technical programs are top ranked, but it is best known for it's CS department, which is ranked #1 (or extremely close to it) in almost all of the college guides. In addition, the average Math / Verbal SAT, and the median 80th percentile range for the CS department is higher than that of any other department at CMU.
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Many underprivileged kids have no idea how to improve matters and that is the primary issue. The girl in your OP was able to find good mentors, not everyone knows where to look or is able to find them even if they look. There is also a catch 22 here, in order to select good mentors you already have to have at least a vague notion of who "knows his/her stuff" and who does not.
It really is all about what you know and when you're a kid that is highly correlated with what your parents, etc know. Kids that grew up underprivileged environments very often are filled with many misconception about matters. But it unfortunately extends beyond just misconceptions as key neurological development has also occurred in this environment and this has an everlasting effect on your abilities as an adult.
Anyhow, this issue goes well beyond "hustling" and I think the tacit implication being made in this thread is rather insulting (and inaccurate). Namely, that if kids from underprivileged environments don't get into good schools etc its because a lack of "hustle". Having "hustle" in itself is not the issue, it is directing your "hustle" in the appropriate direction that matters. The girl in the OP had people that were able to point her in the right direction, without that her hustle would not mean much.
Does the 20 year old kid that has risen in the ranks of MS 13 over 3 years lack hustle? No...its just directed in the things he knows.
You are correct - however there are many children (esp in America) who don't listen to parents or teachers or whoever, even when the parents know what's right and wrong. Why is the student doing poorly in school? Are the parents saying it's not important? Are the teachers saying it's not important?
Also, if you watched the video with the girl on Oprah, you'll see that her "aha" moment, where she knew education was her way out, came not from her parents, but from an exam she took in 3rd grade, which was a requirement to advance to 4th grade.
Last edited by NYCAnalyst; 02-19-2010 at 04:18 PM..
Also, if you watched the video with the girl on Oprah, you'll see that her "aha" moment, where she knew education was her way out, came not from her parents, but from an exam she took in 3rd grade, which was a requirement to advance to 4th grade.
When she was 8-9 years old she had this insight? I doubt it. I think her parents must have had a lot to do with her success.
My computer has a hard time with videos, but I did watch that. Just prior to talking about 3rd grade experience, she gives credit to her mother for having high expectations for her regardless of the circumstances. Plus, she wasn't taking an "entry into 4th grade" exam, she was learning her times tables, and her teacher said if she didn't learn them she couldn't move on.
Really? Admissions at all elite schools are need-blind - income is not a factor in the admissions decision. There are people of all backgrounds at these schools, but nearly all of them are well-rounded students - strong academics, strong extracurricular activities, strong essays, and strong recommendations. Look at the average SAT scores of these schools and the percentage of students who graduated in the top 10% of their high school class and you'll see that those stats are miles ahead of those of other schools. You can't buy high school grades.
Dime-a-dozen means that it is not uncommon. It doesn't mean it's a requirement to get in. It merely sends a signal (albeit a very strong one) that the applicant has some serious quantitative skills. All of CMU's technical programs are top ranked, but it is best known for it's CS department, which is ranked #1 (or extremely close to it) in almost all of the college guides.
Saying its a "dime-a-dozen" implies its very common, not just "not uncommon". Knowing a bunch of programming languages is not only not a requirement, it really does not matter much. But this is largely irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst
Why is the student doing poorly in school? Are the parents saying it's not important? Are the teachers saying it's not important?
There are obviously many reasons why kids do poorly in school. When I was in primary and secondary school I was simply not interested in what they were doing in the classroom and nobody really cared about my grades. I seriously don't even remember studying for anything...I'm not even sure how I graduated high school. Anyhow, its not really about "not listening to your parents". In many cases the parents are not saying anything of much value in the first place.
In terms of the teachers, once you are seen as a "bad student" they don't care. Teachers have the same sort of biases, misconceptions, etc as everyone else.
What happened with the girl in the OP is very rare, that is after all why they are writing about it!
Have you ever applied to a college? Where in the application does it ask for income levels and financial standing? Applications go in long before financial aid requests go in.
Ok, this whole thread is just SILLY. Of course Harvard is a very selective school and it CAN be but it still has a limited number of chairs in the classroom just like every single other college/university around the world. OP, I am sorry you didn't get into Harvard but quite frankly, if you really think you are Harvard material you should KNOW better then to think that a Harvard degree is going to help you ONE BIT in the teaching world. Most people are going to look at a resume with a Harvard degree on it when you are applying for a $30,000/year job and laugh at the silliness of spending that kind of money on a teaching degree.
OP, I am sorry you didn't get into Harvard but quite frankly, if you really think you are Harvard material you should KNOW better then to think that a Harvard degree is going to help you ONE BIT in the teaching world. Most people are going to look at a resume with a Harvard degree on it when you are applying for a $30,000/year job and laugh at the silliness of spending that kind of money on a teaching degree.
Wrong thread, I never applied nor did I mention anything about the teaching world.
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