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As time goes on, appeasing Putin, which is what we are essentially doing, is no different than FDR appeasing Stalin...and look what happened shortly after Yalta in 1945(all of Eastern Europe went Red)..
There simply IS no appeasing Putin, or slapping him on the wrist with sanctions...
Compare the two pictures below....
First, look at FDR kowtowing to Stalin, essentially kissing his arse by laughing at his "jokes", buttering him up..
Now look at Obama and Putin, same deal...
Have we not learned anything from history?
Now check this out.....
Stalin and Hitler shaking hands.....
I do understand politics and diplomacy make strange bedfellows, but ....WTF?
Putin and Xi, looking like the best of chums...
Can you read between the lines here?
There is no appeasing Putin, and neither with China, and now they are in kahoots..
Seriously? Man you people really are something sometimes; have you ever even picked up a history book and read it?
Stalin and Putin are not even close to the same, and no one is appeasing Putin, quite the opposite, they have been edging him on for over a decade now, and Ukraine was the line in the sand for Russia.
You sound like one of those low informed types, in which your knowledge of global events are derived from 15 second news clips and what ever some idiotic top story is on CNN and Fox. Not to be rude or anything, but I cannot take anyone seriously that actually thinks there is some sort of comparison here.
By the way, that is not Stalin and Hitler shaking hands, that is Chamberlain. Stalin and Hitler have never met, never even spoke to each other.
Putin is just seeing and exploiting western weaknesses. Romney was right about Russia under him. He knows there is no willingness in west to confront him really. Unlike Hitler and Stalin and many others he isn't just some peasant strong man that came to power. Chamberlain reminds one that things can't always be talked out or words; even on paperj trusted on their own.
Another small difference is a very large war that happened over 60 years ago. America used the millions of Russian soldiers' deaths to our advantage so our own boys would not have to die in the same numbers.
In any war, the enemy of our enemy is our friend. Neither Roosevelt nor Stalin nor Churchill trusted or liked each other, but they all wanted everything they could get for their countries, especially when that time was still awash in blood. Stalin wanted something in return for the price of his dead, and he got it. In return, Stalin lived up to his part of the devilish bargain right up to the end, when he declared war against Japan after the Germans had surrendered. He may have been a bastard, but he was our bastard to the end. That was Hitler's downfall- he could have had Stalin on his side if he had honored his treaty with the Russians instead of invading their motherland. And, along the way, he could have learned what being a real dictator was all about.
Putin is nothing but a little washed up tin-pot wannabe compared to Stalin. Uncle Joe inherited the control of a nation that was still living 200 years in the past, and he whipped it into the 20th century using brutality. Putin could never repeat what Stalin did- his people would turn on him if he ever tried, with the army being the first to revolt.
All Putin wants is a tiny bit of what Stalin left as a legacy. Putin is nothing but a street beggar holding out a styrofoam cup demanding loose change in comparison to Uncle Joe.
Turn off the Fox and open up some books, Scott. Too little knowledge is a dangerous thing for you. Stalin's strongest tool of all in controlling his people were their ignorance. They believed what he told them because they were ignorant of their history. You didn't even know who Chamberlin was!
Who do you think knows who has the upper hand in that picture of Putin and Xi? The one on the left with the pasty face, or the one on the right, beaming with confidence? Now, take a look at your other photos and think a little...
Last edited by banjomike; 11-08-2014 at 12:16 AM..
Yeah, this has to be either a trolling post, or one of the least-informed questions ever posed.
Stalin starved 7 million in Ukraine, the Volga regions and Belarus in 32-33. Forced collectivization and "dekulakization" killed up to another 9 million from 30-37. He killed up to an estimated 750,000 political rivals and affiliates during the Yezhovshchina in 37 and 38. He ordered 26 million to their death in the Eastern Front's war of attrition that, as many modern historians are concluding, he provoked with Hitler. Their are no accurate statistics on deaths in Gulag, but that number between 1934 and 1953 is estimated at over 1 million.
Putin has killed a couple thousand in Chechnya, and that's horrible, no doubt. He's a horrible, evil person. But he's a politician, is that so unusual? The US' own troops have destroyed the entire genetic makeup of the population of Fallujah using depleted uranium, where 4 out of 10 infants are now born with birth defects. Putin will never be anywhere NEAR as horrible as Stalin, and you ought not to let the media-hype convince you that falsehoods have some validity.
Yeah, this has to be either a trolling post, or one of the least-informed questions ever posed.
I would not be surprised with either, but I really think it is the latter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
Stalin starved 7 million in Ukraine, the Volga regions and Belarus in 32-33. Forced collectivization and "dekulakization" killed up to another 9 million from 30-37. He killed up to an estimated 750,000 political rivals and affiliates during the Yezhovshchina in 37 and 38. He ordered 26 million to their death in the Eastern Front's war of attrition that, as many modern historians are concluding, he provoked with Hitler. Their are no accurate statistics on deaths in Gulag, but that number between 1934 and 1953 is estimated at over 1 million.
I would not put it this way; there was no provocation, it was well known Hitler's thoughts about the USSR before Hitler ever was in power; it is only provocation in the sense the USSR government did not just hand over its territory to Germany, and got in the way of Germany's desires to "expand". As far as "sending" 26 million to their death; that was the Soviet death toll including civilians, this is a result of a German led invasion, the largest land invasion in history, I do not see how that is "sending" anyone to their deaths, it was the Germans that launched the invasion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL
Putin has killed a couple thousand in Chechnya, and that's horrible, no doubt. He's a horrible, evil person. But he's a politician, is that so unusual? The US' own troops have destroyed the entire genetic makeup of the population of Fallujah using depleted uranium, where 4 out of 10 infants are now born with birth defects. Putin will never be anywhere NEAR as horrible as Stalin, and you ought not to let the media-hype convince you that falsehoods have some validity.
I do not think Putin himself killed a couple of thousand; putting down an insurgency is a dirty business, and civilians will get caught in the crossfire, just as the US found out in Iraq. Casualties are high in Chechnya because Russian troops did not have any strict rules of engagement as US troops would have; whether this is an effective way or not to accomplish an objective, who knows, but the Afghanistan and Iraq are still both a mess after a decade of war...
I would not put it this way; there was no provocation, it was well known Hitler's thoughts about the USSR before Hitler ever was in power; it is only provocation in the sense the USSR government did not just hand over its territory to Germany, and got in the way of Germany's desires to "expand". As far as "sending" 26 million to their death; that was the Soviet death toll including civilians, this is a result of a German led invasion, the largest land invasion in history, I do not see how that is "sending" anyone to their deaths, it was the Germans that launched the invasion.
This is a pretty good article on that. On its surface, it would seem you're correct. But a careful analysis of the political back-door dealing, along with documents declassified during and after glasnost, casts doubt on that particular narrative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
I do not think Putin himself killed a couple of thousand; putting down an insurgency is a dirty business, and civilians will get caught in the crossfire, just as the US found out in Iraq. Casualties are high in Chechnya because Russian troops did not have any strict rules of engagement as US troops would have; whether this is an effective way or not to accomplish an objective, who knows, but the Afghanistan and Iraq are still both a mess after a decade of war...
You should watch this if you think it was just a matter of "putting down an insurgency." I know it's Ingushetia, but it's the same region and the same tactics.
It's not that I doubt any of what you're saying. I just believe that deeper analysis discloses deeper evils in the political arena. And I'm not one of these 9-11-truther-conspiracy-theorists or anything. I just believe that there really are some sick, well-thought out things that happen at the behest of political authorities the world over.
And... as for US troops having strict rules of engagement...
War is evil and wrong, no matter who does it to who else. If you disagree, then you're basically a Leninist. From his own writings, the important question is not the right or wrongness of a particular act, but “Kto kogo ?” Or, in English, "Who does what to whom?"
I was born in Kiev Ukraine. And I do not see Putin as an evil man over Ukraine. There is a difference between the actual situation in Ukraine and how it is portrayed to you on CNN.
Putin has served Russia and Putin is one of Russia's heros, but it's time for Putin to honorably retire for the well being of and future of Russia.
I was born in Kiev Ukraine. And I do not see Putin as an evil man over Ukraine. There is a difference between the actual situation in Ukraine and how it is portrayed to you on CNN.
Putin has served Russia and Putin is one of Russia's heros, but it's time for Putin to honorably retire for the well being of and future of Russia.
The issue is the internal situation in Russia; what many people in the West fail to understand is the internal political situation in Russia.
The second largest political party in Russia is the communist party, the third largest is the nationalist party; no one, not even the majority of Russians, want either of these two in power. However, it takes a strong leader to keep these two parties at bay, Putin is that strong leader, that is why Yelstin handed power over to him, Yelstin should have stepped down years before he did as Yelstin was politically weak.
If not Putin, then who? I am no fan of Putin at all, he did come in at a good moment, but that time has passed, however, I really see no one capable of be strong enough to keep everything together. If the person is not strong enough, then internal order will just collapse, as it did in the 90's. If it is just a puppet, then the place will be like Ukraine, ran by everyone other than the leader.
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