Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It all boils down to one simple point: It's the LGBT militants who are always looking to pick the fight, then run fawning and whining to Big Brother in order to get their way.
In a society run by those "principles"??, no one's property, liberty, or life itself is safe -- if they offend the Powers that Be, who have determined their behavior to be Politically Incorrect.
Well it is true. Most rational folk are suing adverse and will go to another establishment for business. You sue if you have been injured somehow otherwise it is being punitive.
Like "Gays are being persecuted" and "denied basic human rights" because some people won't bake them Gay Wedding cakes?
Comparing themselves to Rosa Parks and MLK because people of faith believe their own values are more important that being forced to provided services in support of homosexuality?
MLK held up a sign that said "I AM A MAN"
Gays hold up signs that say "I LOVE A MAN" (or woman).
Hardly the same thing, but if you buy into the propaganda, you would think there are gays hanging from lampposts at every street corner and fire hoses and rabid dogs are being set upon homosexuals by bakeries and flower shops.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
The United States of America is not a christian nation as you continue to preach. Its laws are not based on christian principle, dogma, mindset, habit, rumor, custom or belief.
"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Why did you skip that part?
Of course the nations laws were based on Christian principles, doga, mindset, etc. That is why we had laws against divorce, adultery, sodomy, perjury, theft, murder at al.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundtine
She absolutely did refuse to sell to a gay person. You agreeing with the reason she refused to sell her product to a gay person doesn't somehow negate the fact that she refused to sell a product of hers to a customer because of his sexual orientation. Selling flowers is an exercise of commerce, not religion.
She has been selling to a gay man for years, she opted not to sell for a gay wedding. It is not because of his orientation as she has been selling to him for years. It is the event she doesn't want to be forced to recognize. Being forced to participate in a gay wedding is an imposition on her faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundtine
Of course that's not what they intended. The drafters of the 14th Amendment didn't even intend for it to apply to and protect the rights of women, let alone gay people. But thankfully that's not the question that guides the Supreme Court.
It should be what guides the SCOTUS, the actual laws that is. When The Supremes can create new law never covered or never intended by the law then there is no limit to their power and they are unelected and serve for life. If protection for other classes beyond what the law covers are important than they need to be codified in the regular manner, not created by justices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundtine
Sure there is. Both race and sexual orientation are immutable, biological characteristics. As such, race based and sexual orientation based discrimination are equally as invidious. Of course she discriminated against him. That's a fact. Explaining her rationale for discriminating against him doesn't make it not discrimination. Washington's anti-discrimination law in no way does.
And that's the Constitutional standard that governs the Free Exercise Clause of the 1st Amendment. Per the 1st Amendment, individual religious belief does not excuse one from compliance with an otherwise valid law of neutral applicability prohibiting conduct that a state is free to regulate. Anti-discrimination in public accommodation laws absolutely are Constitutional and have long been upheld as such.
There is no proof that sexual orientation is an immutable, biological characteristic.
There are plenty of exceptions covered by the 1st Amendment, as have been discussed (pharmacists, doctors, etc) that the courts have affirmed and the RFRA has served as protection for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
Sorry, but the first amendment means freedom of religion, that goes for ALL religions. The word Christian wasn't specifically singled out to get freedom of religion above all others.
The intent of the 1st Amendment was to protect the various Christian groups in the country that was forming. The Catholics in Maryland, Quakers in PA, Anglicans in VA, Calvinists in MA, Baptists in RI and so on. There were only around 2,000 Jews living in America at the time of the Revolution and the founding documents so Jewish sensibilities were not really a consideration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
Perhaps you should read the post I was responding to that said that god did not change the laws he gave to Moses. As far as I know god gave the OT laws to Moses, and the shell fish, pork, dirty women, ect laws are part of the 613 OT laws sent to Moses by god.
God didn't change the laws, he changed to whom they applied. Christians are under Grace, not The Law. If you are an observant Jew you are supposed to be obeying those laws; some do, some don't, some obey parts (kosher) and some are Jews in name alone.
If store owners don't want serve gays, why not just hang up a "no gays" sign in the door??
They cant.or why not just put up... This store is run by a religious fantatic who wont serve you in this establishment. this is Segregation without race.... maybe some fanatics could istall water fountains in the street, GAYS ONLY.... thats takes me back.
Laws that force non-essential businesses to associate with people they would rather not are just bad laws.
Yes, businesses need to follow the law, but the law needs to be changed to cover only essential businesses.
There is no valid "public good" served by forcing non-essential businesses to perform transactions. If you disagree, please tell us what this "public good" is that would require forced association. (Remember, we are talking about non-essential businesses).
If they are "non-essential" and there are people that they do not wish to associate with, then why in the heck are they in public business? Surely they can find other bigots to pay them privately.
Genesis 1:27
"God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
Matthew 25:40
"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'"
When you deny service to anyone, then you are denying service to God.
Declaration of Independence
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,..."
Truth.
They cant.or why not just put up... This store is run by a religious fantatic who wont serve you in this establishment. this is Segregation without race.... maybe some fanatics could istall water fountains in the street, GAYS ONLY.... thats takes me back.
We have had plenty of bad laws in this country. Remember when you know who were slaves and the other half could not vote.etc.etc.
The right to bear arms is one of them. A background check is not adequate. People can fake it well enough like Lubitz with German Wings did, then you can make history. A residence check to see that the firearm is stored in a secure place so a young teen can't get access to it is necessary.
Please don't equate gays with black discrimination. It is not close on multiple levels.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
