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What more do you expect a bad guy to do than this guy did? Twiddle his handlebar moustache and snicker?
If they thought the situation could be de-escalated, moving in between the girls and the maniac was pretty much the most logical way to de-escalate it.
They didn't, however, expect the level of violence this man was primed and fully intended to project. There are two point in that: One is that they were absolutely correct that an intervention was necessary to protect the girls. This man was going to find a pretext to harm them (as he'd already attempted the previous night with another woman).
They were still of the mind that he was not completely intending to harm someone. This is somewhat similar to the crews of the 9/11 aircraft, a mindset that "this situation can be brought back to a rational level because surely we're not dealing with complete evil intent."
But are we coming to the point that there ought to be an expectation of this level of violence? Is their going to be the standard refrain, "You shoulda had the skills before you got involved?"
Do we all have to consign ourselves to a binary condition?
1. Don't get involved, be merely passive witnesses of any level of brutality
2. Be prepared to meet brutality with brutality
How about getting between him and the girls and getting the girls out of there, without saying a word to him?
And when you get in the face of a crazy person you can't say "well I didn't expect them to get violent", you're not dealing with a rational person who is upset because someone backed into their car in a parking lot. This is full on crazy.
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Originally Posted by TaxPhd
While I am inclined to agree with you, the above statements are nothing more than conjecture - even with the benefit of hindsight, we don't know what he would have done to the young women, or that it would have been anything more than continued verbal assault.
While I am inclined to agree with you, the above statements are nothing more than conjecture - even with the benefit of hindsight, we don't know what he would have done to the young women, or that it would have been anything more than continued verbal assault.
That puts you in situation 1: Being willing to be a passive witness to whatever might occur.
In hindsight, however, knowing that he had already attacked a woman the prior night, we can't say that we don't have sufficient reason to believe he would also have attacked those girls.
How about getting between him and the girls and getting the girls out of there, without saying a word to him?
I don't know that they initiated conversation. But if they didn't, do you really think Christian would have just settled down?
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And when you get in the face of a crazy person you can't say "well I didn't expect them to get violent", you're not dealing with a rational person who is upset because someone backed into their car in a parking lot. This is full on crazy.
So that puts you in situation 2: If you know there are hypothetical situations that will call you to action, you must be prepared to meet force with force.
What more do you expect a bad guy to do than this guy did? Twiddle his handlebar moustache and snicker?
He didn't pull the knife until they intervened.
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
They didn't, however, expect the level of violence this man was primed and fully intended to project.
That was obviously an error in judgment.
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
They were still of the mind that he was not completely intending to harm someone. This is somewhat similar to the crews of the 9/11 aircraft, a mindset that "this situation can be brought back to a rational level because surely we're not dealing with complete evil intent."
Naive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
But are we coming to the point that there ought to be an expectation of this level of violence? Is their going to be the standard refrain, "You shoulda had the skills before you got involved?"
Would you take on an enraged person if you had no ability to defend yourself?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
1. Don't get involved, be merely passive witnesses of any level of brutality
2. Be prepared to meet brutality with brutality
1. Start by calling the police, they are trained for it. You can get involved initially without putting yourself in harms way. If you can't defend yourself or the intended victims you'll only be an added victim.
2. YES
The motto here is always expect the worst in an altercation. Never assume because a person hasn't become violent that they won't. And just because you can't see a weapon doesn't mean they don't have one.
That puts you in situation 1: Being willing to be a passive witness to whatever might occur.
No, you've created a false dichotomy. There were other options besides doing nothing, and accosting a crazy person.
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In hindsight, however, knowing that he had already attacked a woman the prior night, we can't say that we don't have sufficient reason to believe he would also have attacked those girls.
Again, pure speculation (likely correct, but speculation nonetheless).
After reading more detail about the case (which wasn't available initially), it seems obvious that this guy was indeed intent on attacking someone that fatal day. The fact that the young women that he was screaming at got up & he followed them showed that he was probably not going to just wander off.
It's impossible to know if this situation could have ended without someone getting hurt, or worse. The guy was nuts, and unrpredictable. I tend to get extremely defensive when I'm around mentally ill people like this, but at the same time I know that one false move could result in someone's getting seriously hurt or killed (I knew this even long before this incident). So, even if the girls had gotten off the train without his attacking them, he still may have followed them onto the platform & continued harassing/threatening them until he was stopped.
It's too bad someone didn't take out this P.O.S. prior to this incident; two innocent brave people would still be alive, and this piece of human garbage wouldn't be around to hurt/bother anyone ever again.
Anyone that's out walking around screaming & threatening innocent bystanders should not be allowed to do this. But, it seems that the authorities always wait until someone gets hurt or killed before any action is taken against these nut jobs.
Last edited by The Big Lebowski Dude; 06-02-2017 at 04:22 PM..
A healthy young man who intends to stab you and has pulled his knife on you closer than 20 feet has already stabbed you, even if you're armed with a gun.
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Start by calling the police, they are trained for it. You can get involved initially without putting yourself in harms way. If you can't defend yourself or the intended victims you'll only be an added victim.
No police on that train car. If he had just decided to slash everyone, clearly they were all just screwed.
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