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No two week 'training' can prepare you adequately to deal with people with mental health issues. Especially when that training is going to put you in conflict with your previous training. Police officers are taught to take control of the situation as soon as they arrive on scene. So there was no possibility of them 'leaving him alone'. And when someone threatens themselves, it immediately raises the threat level to everyone around that person, especially if that person has a weapon.
I don't know what you people expected the police to do in this situation. Pack up there stuff and drive away? The police didn't do anything to this man. He did it to himself.
Maybe next time, when someone calls the police and says that their son is threatening himself and others, they police should just send a psychiatrist. Lets see how well that works out.
You are spot on. And the cases when the officers do apprehend someone that is having a mental breakdown, they take them to the hospital, where the doctors release them again in less than 8 hours. It is a vicious cycle and they are not getting the mental treatment they desperately need. I always blame first the doctors and second the legal system.
I have a crazy ex. I have called the police every time he has attacked me, threatened me or trespassed on and in my property. Why is he still free and has never had to get treatment? I can see giving a pass for the first and maybe second situations, but 3 and more should be dealt with. At that point it is obvious that he has issues.
Hey cops aren't martyrs......they deserve to go home at the end of the day to their families and not get killed because Jr. broke up with his girlfriend and is having a bad day that his parents couldn't fix.
Every Job has risks. If you dont like the risks, dont take the job. However the statistics for Police are that they will retire on some form or disability ( usually the age related type), take another governmental job then receive another retirement all at the taxpayers expense then eventually die of alcoholism or depression just like everyone else.
You act like they shouldnt do anything. Which is not correct. They should do the RIGHT thing. Unfortunately the right thing of waiting and talking to the guy is boring and not cool and will probably interfere with whatever they have going on in the evening. I cant really blame the police themselves thou. It is a morality of leadership issue.
And if they had just let him be and he blew his brains out, the press would have bashed the police for not doing anything. Basically it is a no win situation.
Your source that LEOs are facing ever increasing threats? LEO's job is safer than that of a taxicab driver. A taxicab driver is twice as likely as a cop to be murdered on the job. Of course that's probably because we don't allow taxicab drivers to preemptively shoot their customers, if they "perceive" the customer is a threat. If taxicab drivers were shooting their customers over "perceived" threats, I have a feeling that people would get a little "unhinged" about that too.
That is a clear case of false equivalency. It matters not that some crab fisherman faces a higher mortality rate, as his job description does not require him to respond to dangerous situations based on calls for help/assistance.
There is no doubt that an occasional LEO will be overzealous or even abusive, as they are human beings just like the rest of us. However the overwhelming stats show that most interactions with police do not result in injury or death.
While everyone would love to have a Sheriff Taylor respond to their calls, they typically do not live in Maryberry USA. Instead, a LEO like that would not live very long with some of the scum he would encounter on a daily basis.
Also keep in mind that hiring practices have been lowered to such an extent, you can have fools behind a badge who have no common sense at all. Granted the majority of LEO's are decent, but the overall level of competency/abilities have been lowered tremendously, all because of social engineering hiring requirements.
So if you do not complain and actively oppose your local, state and federal hiring guidelines that mandates "diversity" instead of the best person for the job, blame yourself when a dimwitted person shows up in a police car or ambulance.
That is a clear case of false equivalency. It matters not that some crab fisherman faces a higher mortality rate, as his job description does not require him to respond to dangerous situations based on calls for help/assistance.
Cab drivers do have to respond to dangerous situations. They have to pick up fares in dangerous neighborhoods where they know there is a good chance they will get robbed or maybe even murdered. Statistically they are in more danger while working then LEOs are.
Again taxi drivers are twice as likely as LEOs to be murdered on the job. Why is the life of a taxi driver worth less than that of a cop? Why should a cab driver not have the same rights to get home safe to his family as a cop does?
Exactly, imagine a tank coming up your back steps.
Really? Ever hear of the Reagan Democrats? Probably not.
I know plenty of people who are middle of the road to conservative who have noticed and commented on how there has been a shift with the police and not a good one.
BTW it was under Obama that the police have gotten so miltarized. It's ridiculous some of the equipment these police forces now have and what they cart it out for.
This is a perfect example. It's becoming very Orwellian. And that impacts everyone, doesn't matter how you lean politically.
I'm a right of center Independent. Moderate all in all. And I have a lot of issue with the current mindset of the police.
There is a Heavy militaristic trend within departments and It's not good. To be fair, this started up under W with the Patriot Act. A piece of legislation Obama campaigned on repealing or at least heavily revising. Yea, he revised it alright. After taking office he decided he liked it and actually expanded it.
LE powers have given them a LOT of latitude under it. Authority to enter without a warrant, suspicion is enough for PC, arrest and detention for questioning, and much more. Including, unfortunately, less strict parameters for use of lethal force. I cringed when the Patriot Act was unveiled. A lot of people cheered it. Especially LE. Supposedly it untied their hands when dealing with criminals and there is less worry about bad guys skating on technicalities. Technicalities like the 4th ammendment. Pretty much that silly little outdated document called the Constitution of the United States. The cop apologists and war on drugs fanatics keep supporting these expanded powers and gunning up of the police as being required for the times. Sacrificing freedoms for the illusion of security and making it tough on criminals and terrorists.
But the Patriot Act, just as I knew it would, is being horribly abused. The expanded police powers apply to all of us. Not just real criminals. Like in asset forfiteure. Really boosts revenue streams. Don't get caught by the cops with more than maybe a couple hundred in cash on you. You'll never see it again. Obviously you're up to no good with all that cash.
Best comply immediately with any and all commands, and don't ask any questions. Definitely don't be having a bad day and let it creep into your tone of voice. That's what Tasers are for. Attitude adjustment. Even the look of LE has changed . BDUs have replaced the uniforms of old, and duty belts bristle with NLDs and spare hi cap magazines. Patrol officers are now very heavily armed. M4s are ubiquitous in addition to the shotgun and standard sidearm are all hi cap with at least four back up magazines. That's 75 rounds of ammunition on an officers belt for the handgun alone. The M4 will probably have at least 4 Mags which is another 120 rounds for the "patrol carbine" and figure at least 50 rounds on tap for the shotgun. That's a lot of firepower. One patrol officer can equip a squad out of his trunk. As evidenced by this incident it doesn't stop at just firearms. Armored vehicles, grenade launchers, drones, thermal i.aging and high tech sound surveillance gear (great for warrantless eavesdropping) Los Angeles PD and LA County have Barrett 50s and RAUFUS ammunition. Pretty heavy stuff there. Other big metro agencies I'm sure are similarly equipped. Since this type of hardware is illegal for citizens to own in CA, where does the "need" lie?
In the case here, the police had enough firepower to level the entire neighborhood parked on the people's lawn. How could that possibly be called just "being prudent?" One distraught kid with a handgun, no hostages, no crime actually. I have to say this was swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. A regional response with heavy tactical assault equipment. Enough to take on a well armed terrorist action with company strength manpower for a single distraught young man holed up in his bedroom in suburbia. How could anyone say such a response is just "being prudent?"
Well, if terrorists or other criminals want to pull something off and want to be assured that LE resources are diverted away from their planned operation I guess they know how to do it.
Last edited by NVplumber; 07-17-2017 at 10:45 AM..
I'm sure NYPD Officer Miosotis Familia thought it was going to be just another average day at work before some idiot walked up to her Police van and shot her in the head on July 5th.
The point is the cops never know who or what they will be facing when they answer the 911 call.
You virtually always excuse cop actions. You are part of the problem. I've read your posts before, and it seems as if any degree of force is justified in your viewpoint. It could happen to you at a simple traffic stop.
Why is this? Arent Police supposed to protect you?
And your "Police are ambushed" scenario is quite rare. Almost non existent in fact. Out of a million Police only about 150 or so are killed on duty every year. More than 3/4 of those are either heart attacks of traffic accidents. Some yes are killed by someone actually attacking them. Horrible. But little in the way of justification for assaulting and killing people just to make it safer for the police. There are few cases for the heavy handedness that you like.
There were 26 police killed violently this year so far If you dont count the Dogs.
One officer was killed during a domestic disturbance
One died from a gunshot 31 years ago
A few during a prison riot
3 were ambushed
The vast majority were killed while either looking for a suspect or investigating a traffic accident. Not giving a traffic ticket.
The Majority of them were African Americans with Latinos coming in close second. If it matters to you.
Joe, there's a portion of our population that feeds off police shoot-em-ups. They will defend the police almost without question or exception. Throwing FACTS at them does nothing. They have a scenario they stick with almost no matter what.
I'm a right of center Independent. Moderate all in all. And I have a lot of issue with the current mindset of the police.
There is a Heavy militaristic trend within departments and It's not good. To be fair, this started up under W with the Patriot Act. A piece of legislation Obama campaigned on repealing or at least heavily revising. Yea, he revised it alright. After taking office he decided he liked it and actually expanded it.
LE powers have given them a LOT of latitude under it. Authority to enter without a warrant, suspicion is enough for PC, arrest and detention for questioning, and much more. Including, unfortunately, less strict parameters for use of Ethan force. I cringed when the Patriot Act was unveiled. A lot of people cheered it. Especially LE. Supposedly it untied their hands when dealing with criminals and there is less worry about bad guys skating on technicalities. Technicalities like the 4th ammendment. Pretty much that silly little outdated document called the Constitution of the United States. The cop apologists and war on drugs fanatics keep supporting these expanded powers and gunning up of the police as being required for the times. Sacrificing freedoms for the illusion of security and making it tough on criminals and terrorists.
But the Patriot Act, just as I knew it would, is being horribly abused. The expanded police powers apply to all of us. Not just real criminals. Like in asset forfiteure. Really boosts revenue streams. Don't get caught by the cops with more than maybe a couple hundred in cash on you. You'll never see it again. Obviously you're up to no good with all that cash.
Best comply immediately with any and all commands, and don't ask any questions. Definitely don't be having a bad day and let it creep into your tone of voice. That's what Tasers are for. Attitude adjustment. Even the look of LE has changed . BDUs have replaced the uniforms of old, and duty belts bristle with NLDs and spare hi cap magazines. Patrol officers are now very heavily armed. M4s are ubiquitous in addition to the shotgun and standard sidearm are all hi cap with at least four back up magazines. That's 75 rounds of ammunition on an officers belt for the handgun alone. The M4 will probably have at least 4 Mags which is another 120 rounds for the "patrol carbine" and figure at least 50 rounds on tap for the shotgun. That's a lot of firepower. One patrol officer can equip a squad out of his trunk. As evidenced by this incident it doesn't stop at just firearms. Armored vehicles, grenade launchers, drones, thermal i.aging and high tech sound surveillance gear (great for warrantless eavesdropping) Los Angeles PD and LA County have Barrett 50s and RAUFUS ammunition. Pretty heavy stuff there. Other big metro agencies I'm sure are similarly equipped. Since this type of hardware is illegal for citizens to own in CA, where does the "need" lie?
In the case here, the police had enough firepower to level the entire neighborhood parked on the people's lawn. How could that possibly be called just "being prudent?" One distraught kid with a handgun, no hostages, no crime actually. I have to say this was swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. A regional response with heavy tactical assault equipment. Enough to take on a well armed terrorist action with company strength manpower for a single distraught young man holed up in his bedroom in suburbia. How could anyone say such a response is just "being prudent?"
Well, if terrorists or other criminals want to pull something off and want to be assured that LE resources are diverted away from their planned operation I guess they know how to do it.
Thank you for your well written and informative post.
I agree with you a 100% about the Patriot Act.
This was a ridiculous show of force.
And there is a definitely a shift in attitude of the cops. I recently chatted with an older woman(the type who never even got a speeding ticket) she went to a local police station to get some information on permits and was "rattled" at how she was treated.
Hey cops aren't martyrs......they deserve to go home at the end of the day to their families and not get killed because Jr. broke up with his girlfriend and is having a bad day that his parents couldn't fix.
So do we citizens.
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