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I feel that Celina has a lot in common with Arlington when they started growing. It is a gigantic space planned with nothing but houses and infrastructure that is lagging behind and failing to catch up to current needs. I think Celina has not done a good job keeping with the growth and being proactive. They are just now getting a legit outdoor warning siren system in the works for Pete's sake. I feel as it ages Celina can go a few different ways:
1. Celina stays very WASPy and exclusionary. Maybe think a giant Flower Mound or Lantana. With smaller lots and homes when compared to something like Prosper, but still pretty "Boujee".
2. Celina stays Boujee for the most part, but becomes very racially and culturally diverse. Think of the far eastern Mansfield / Grand Prairie Peninsula area (the stretch of stuff around Lake Ridge High School). Not income exclusive but more on the well off side.
3. Celina becomes very socioeconomically and racially diverse. Think of the area around Braswell High in the 380 corridor. There are mini-castles and normal 3 bed 2 bath options.
I think scenario 3 is more likely as that is what we are already seeing nearby in the Braswell 380 corridor nextdoor.
3 is actually the only possible likely out of your scenarios. Reason being, Celina’s build out will be over 300k. It’s 3x the size of Flower Mounds’. It’s statistically not possible for a city with over 300k people at build-out to not be at least somewhat socioeconomically diverse.
The only towns where the entire town / city is “wealthy” are enclave towns with much lower populations such as University Park, Lucas, Southlake, Highland Park etc
I think Celina more so than Prosper will be the next Frisco. In terms of economic diversity, I would expect very little. Racially and ethnically speaking I see it being fairly diverse like Plano and Frisco.
I keep noticing more and more that Celina is, in practice, striving to be the next McKinney. City leaders have already indicated they wanted a similar downtown and a similar school district, even as they talk about being the next Frisco. The patterns of development based on what they have done to date and what is currently planned and what they want to see specifically are also more closely aligned with McKinney.
Having lived here over 30 years though, I can state emphatically that no city today truly resembles any other city in its past development. There is no "next" beyond which city is the most popular for people to move.
I keep noticing more and more that Celina is, in practice, striving to be the next McKinney. City leaders have already indicated they wanted a similar downtown and a similar school district, even as they talk about being the next Frisco. The patterns of development based on what they have done to date and what is currently planned and what they want to see specifically are also more closely aligned with McKinney.
Having lived here over 30 years though, I can state emphatically that no city today truly resembles any other city in its past development. There is no "next" beyond which city is the most popular for people to move.
Eh, I'd say Celina is kinda like a new Arlington. People aren't moving there for the uniqueness or charm, they're doing it because "ooh new homes in a field! So shiny!". People moved to Arlington because it was new tract homes built in giant fields with no real thought to infrastructure or anything other than homes and Walmarts. Heck I'm even seeing some of the circa 1980s-2000s tract home design features from Arlington pop back up in Celina like the weird popped out rooms on the front, weird multicolored siding in random places, and random little windows and angles thrown here and there. I hope their downtown ends up being cute.
Eh, I'd say Celina is kinda like a new Arlington. People aren't moving there for the uniqueness or charm, they're doing it because "ooh new homes in a field! So shiny!". People moved to Arlington because it was new tract homes built in giant fields with no real thought to infrastructure or anything other than homes and Walmarts. Heck I'm even seeing some of the circa 1980s-2000s tract home design features from Arlington pop back up in Celina like the weird popped out rooms on the front, weird multicolored siding in random places, and random little windows and angles thrown here and there. I hope their downtown ends up being cute.
I haven't actually been to Arlington other than a visit (via taxi) to Six Flags as a child in 1991, so I can't say.
Mckinney developed much the same way though. People have always moved here because it kept bringing in new housing developments, but it did have some infrastructure and amenities in place as the county seat. Now, the older neighborhoods are declining, and there is little land within city limits to build big new developments.
Of course people are only moving to Celina because they can get a new house or McMansion, but they probably also believe the marketing and hype.
I haven't actually been to Arlington other than a visit (via taxi) to Six Flags as a child in 1991, so I can't say.
Mckinney developed much the same way though. People have always moved here because it kept bringing in new housing developments, but it did have some infrastructure and amenities in place as the county seat. Now, the older neighborhoods are declining, and there is little land within city limits to build big new developments.
Of course people are only moving to Celina because they can get a new house or McMansion, but they probably also believe the marketing and hype.
Yeah, the people that truly believe the "small town feel with relaxed country living" advertising are going to be in for a sore awakening lol
Yeah, Mckinney's main thing now is annexing mega-subdivisions north and east of town into city limits after they develop somewhat. They probably realized it was cheaper to just wait for the developers to put everything in lol.
Basically whichever town gets the next expansion of the tollway is going to be the next boomburg. If you follow the path, it was West Plano, then Frisco, Prosper and now Celina. Whichever town is next in line will be next to blow.
Although I think a big factor in the continued expansion north will be the ability of Frisco, Prosper and Celina to land some of those corporate relos and create another job center further north. If that happens then all those extreme northern suburbs will become realistic spots to live in since the commute to Frisco/Prosper from the Oklahoma border will be less than an hour. If all the jobs still remain in Plano and further south, then I think that will put in a limit on just how far north people will be willing to live.
Unless the Texas legislature changes its tune on gambling, there is zero chance of any casinos being established within the state.
I agree this explanation the most. Based on DFW expansion history over last 4 to 5 decades, nothing come close to bringing the most explosive transformation to cities than DNT. It seems, based on other messages, Celina has wasted once-in-a-generation opportunity, failing to exploit the tremendous Corporate and Commercial growth that DNT usually brings-in.
At the same time, Grayson county has done a excellent job by proactively extending DNT frontage road from Celina into Gunter, up to FM121 (constructed, but not yet open to public). Seems they also planning to extend it from FM121 to FM902 so that the entire corridor b/w FM121 and FM902 roads would get an expedited development. This week's purchase of 1,500 acres in Dorchester along FM902 by Centurion Developer would make this plan jump started by Grayson county.
Gunter has DNT frontage on both sides, unlike Celina which has to share the west side of DNT frontage with Denton County. Gunter being the expensive city in Grayson county, If Gunter City/Grayson county continue to act a bit more proactive and focus on the same factors that brought Frisco/Plano to the Top, hopefully Gunter would certainly earn the 'Next Frisco' crown very soon.
I agree this explanation the most. Based on DFW expansion history over last 4 to 5 decades, nothing come close to bringing the most explosive transformation to cities than DNT.
I think it's correlative at best. Central/East Plano has boomed for a long time, and before that Richardson, both based on US75, not the DNT. The cities themselves, and governments interested in an educated population with plenty of jobs (which they are more than willing to subsidize) vs anything else a city might prioritize is IMO the key factor.
I think in general that highways to underserved areas transportation-wise can bring real growth, but it doesn't really matter if it's paid or free, and each new highway decreases the value, and IMO all the cities should take the space as seriously as they take the DNT - and not line them with sorry hotels, fast food, and low-value car dealerships.
Yeah, the people that truly believe the "small town feel with relaxed country living" advertising are going to be in for a sore awakening lol
Yeah, Mckinney's main thing now is annexing mega-subdivisions north and east of town into city limits after they develop somewhat. They probably realized it was cheaper to just wait for the developers to put everything in lol.
Actually, I think people are buying with the hopes that it will look like Plano or Frisco. They too are in for a sore awakening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesky5
I agree this explanation the most. Based on DFW expansion history over last 4 to 5 decades, nothing come close to bringing the most explosive transformation to cities than DNT. It seems, based on other messages, Celina has wasted once-in-a-generation opportunity, failing to exploit the tremendous Corporate and Commercial growth that DNT usually brings-in.
At the same time, Grayson county has done a excellent job by proactively extending DNT frontage road from Celina into Gunter, up to FM121 (constructed, but not yet open to public). Seems they also planning to extend it from FM121 to FM902 so that the entire corridor b/w FM121 and FM902 roads would get an expedited development. This week's purchase of 1,500 acres in Dorchester along FM902 by Centurion Developer would make this plan jump started by Grayson county.
Gunter has DNT frontage on both sides, unlike Celina which has to share the west side of DNT frontage with Denton County. Gunter being the expensive city in Grayson county, If Gunter City/Grayson county continue to act a bit more proactive and focus on the same factors that brought Frisco/Plano to the Top, hopefully Gunter would certainly earn the 'Next Frisco' crown very soon.
That's not how it's looking. As in Prosper, the area around Dallas Parkway is largely residential or slated for residential, and even Celina will need multiple decades to develop at its current pace before anything of major significance moves there, let alone north. The few proposed commercial projects in both Prosper and Celina are being put along Preston Road, and that is where things will go, not some tollway that may or may not happen with some route still to be determined. That may look good for Gunter, but none of us will not be alive to see it. I don't think things are going to move as quickly as others do.
The same development pattern is not viable in future cities because the economic and business environment is very different, and the current city limits are very different.
No one has bothered to note the significance of the Outer Loop. This is already a done deal, and it's going to itself be a big roller coaster with five lanes in each direction. You can see the full schematics on the county's website.
Those people buying in the new neighborhoods there are going to just love having that big roller coaster plowing straight through the center of their subdivision. All of these Celina neighborhoods are directly up against proposed busy highways or thoroughfares. Celina is shaping up to be a very badly zoned and planned city in my opinion. All these new developments are starting to make Stonebridge Ranch in McKinney look good, and I never thought I'd hear myself say something like that. Evidently, the market doesn't see it that way.
Actually, I think people are buying with the hopes that it will look like Plano or Frisco. They too are in for a sore awakening.
That's not how it's looking. As in Prosper, the area around Dallas Parkway is largely residential or slated for residential, and even Celina will need multiple decades to develop at its current pace before anything of major significance moves there, let alone north. The few proposed commercial projects in both Prosper and Celina are being put along Preston Road, and that is where things will go, not some tollway that may or may not happen with some route still to be determined. That may look good for Gunter, but none of us will not be alive to see it. I don't think things are going to move as quickly as others do.
The same development pattern is not viable in future cities because the economic and business environment is very different, and the current city limits are very different.
No one has bothered to note the significance of the Outer Loop. This is already a done deal, and it's going to itself be a big roller coaster with five lanes in each direction. You can see the full schematics on the county's website.
Those people buying in the new neighborhoods there are going to just love having that big roller coaster plowing straight through the center of their subdivision. All of these Celina neighborhoods are directly up against proposed busy highways or thoroughfares. Celina is shaping up to be a very badly zoned and planned city in my opinion. All these new developments are starting to make Stonebridge Ranch in McKinney look good, and I never thought I'd hear myself say something like that. Evidently, the market doesn't see it that way.
You went full circle from McKinney is S**T to McKinney is the S**T.
Lmfao.
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