Is Texas REALLY that bad at educating its kids? (Houston: low income, transplants)

[biafra4life]

With the state budget crisis on everyone's lips, and the resulting gutting of education funds, the one lament I hear the most is "Texas already sucks at educating its children, ranks at the bottom of every educational benchmark" and so on and so on.

Here's the thing, now most of what I'm about to say is purely anecdotal, I don't have any official numbers to back me up, so here goes...From my 12 plus years in the metroplex, I rarely hear anyone complain about the standard of education delivered in the richest suburbs like Highland Park and Southlake, and that's to be expected. Neither do I hear much complaining from the upper middle class burbs like Frisco, Allen, Flower Mound, etc in fact, from talking to a few transplants, these upper class suburbs appear to be the equal, if not better than many supposedly similar locales in other states.
The solidly middle class areas, like Garland (where I live), and Richardson to name a few, I again don't hear much complaining. Speaking from my personal experience in Garland, I have nothing but praise for my school district. And I also hear great things from Richardson ISD as well. I have family in New York, who tell me that an area with the quality of Garland ISD would command some really high house prices (to me anyway)
It would appear that the main source of anguish in DFW at least are the big isds like Dallas and Fort Worth. But I think their problems are no worse than the problems of every other big city district; majority minority, high number of low income/single parent households. Again referring back to my NY relatives; as far as I know, no Dallas schools have metal detectors on the doors yet...so RELATIVE to the poorest inner city schools it cant be much worse?
Now before anyone starts; let me clarify a few things; no I dont have any official stats, yes I know that I probably have a small sample (DFW since this is where I live). And I do know the official perception is that Texas is way behind everyone else in education, but at least in North Texas, I dont find this to be the case.

[PlanoGirl]

I think schools in the DFW area are, on average, VERY good...as are probably the schools in and around Houston, Austin, etc. I think it's the large number of smaller town schools out in the sticks that bring the numbers so far down. Don't know this for sure...just my feeling. Would love to see data on graduation rates, etc. comparing the main metro areas with the rest of the state, to see if this is indeed true.

[biafra4life]

Originally Posted by PlanoGirl

I think schools in the DFW area are, on average, VERY good...as are probably the schools in and around Houston, Austin, etc. I think it's the large number of smaller town schools out in the sticks that bring the numbers so far down. Don't know this for sure...just my feeling. Would love to see data on graduation rates, etc. comparing the main metro areas with the rest of the state, to see if this is indeed true.

This has been my perception also...arguably the worst ISD in North Texas would be DISD...and that district wouldnt be any worse than any of the big inner city ISDs in other states...and yes the burbs in my opinion stack up very well to similar location in other states. I dont have much knowledge of other big cities in Texas, but in just talking to people from Houston, Austin, etc, they have similar experiences. Now I do know that South Texas, and along the border tend to be really poor and hence have low performances, but the big population centers seem to be ok (relatively speaking)
Now does that mean I condone the slashing of the education budget? no, I do not. I would prefer we use the rainy day fund and make MODERATE cuts. But the doomsday scenario of non existent education in Texas schools seems a tad overblown.

[Westerner92]

Texas easily has some of the best and some of the worst schools in the nation. People tend to focus on the negative.

[BigDGeek]

I went to private Jewish day schools, but here is my $0.02.

I grew up in Dallas itself and if I had gone to public school it would have been to DISD schools. I knew many kids growing up in the DISD, RISD, and some from the PISD. I didn't see enough of a difference between them to form assumptions, i.e. "kids from Dallas are smarter" or "kids from Plano are dumb."

As an adult some of the thickest people I've met who were locally educated are products of Christian parochial schools (mostly Lutheran or non-denom, the big Catholic schools being very notable exceptions) followed by Carrollton/FB ISD, Irving, anywhere in Tarrant County, or Mesquite. But that is just my experience. Plenty of people from all of those school districts have gone on to great things, and plenty of people from the "good" districts have turned out to be totally mediocre.

[biafra4life]

It's just that when you hear Texas is either dead last or next to last in terms of education then you should see a huge gulf in standards, and yes from everything I see and hear in my admittedly limited sample of North Texas, that is most definitely not the case. I know several transplants from California, New York and other places, and have yet to hear any of them complain of the low education standards here compared to where they came from. I'll admit that all of these people are middle class; so perhaps if I spoke to someone who moved from Watts to South Oak Cliff then I would get a different picture? I dont know.

[loves2read]

As a teacher I would like to point out couple of things--

children are a product of their home environment as much or more than they are of their "school" environment--
Their parents and their peers are often the real influence on their perceptions and how they process information.

If you are hearing that Texas is dead last or next to last you are hearing people's opinions vs statistical data--I am not claiming TX leades the nation but there are students with quality educations coming from public schools in TX
the problem is that Texas schools have an ever increasing number of students where English is not their native language--and the number of students at or below the national poverty line is also increasing--

For every stride that TX makes to raise standards and improve educational quality in schools--having to meet and RAISE the skills of students who come in below average students in other states without similar numbers of lower socio-economic students just means that TX is standing in quick sand
Teaching students with those difficulties requires early intervention, small classes, teachers with special training and a commitment to excellence--there are plenty of districts who make that effort or would if they could with their funding--

But it also required an equal commitment from the parents or those who raise those same children--
when you have children who move from resident to resident almost monthly, when their parents or guardians can't help them with a stable home life, enough to eat, appropriate clothing, and encourage them to succeed in school--
then schools have TWICE as much to do--they have to parent as well as teach--and that is just asking too much

This new budget bill will make it that much MORE difficult to teach students who are the most needy--
and the teachers will be the ones held accountable by the Legislature and by people who want to take out public education in place of voucher system or privatizing it--
people with an agenda of their own that goes well beyond "quality education"
so just be ready for those headlines next year...

[LQQKOUT]

Originally Posted by loves2read

As a teacher I would like to point out couple of things--

children are a product of their home environment as much or more than they are of their "school" environment--
Their parents and their peers are often the real influence on their perceptions and how they process information.

Amen to that!!! Reps for you!!

[biafra4life]

L2R,
I'm not disputing any of what you said. I actually agree wholeheartedly with you, however, you may have missed my point. The general consensus here seems to agree with me that North Texas schools certainly on average stack up well with school districts in other states. I will go out on a limb and say that it's a similar situation in the Houston, Austin, and San Antonio metros. So where does all the negativity about Texas education come from? If Texas really blows when it comes to education, I'm not seeing it.

[loves2read]

it comes from people who don't know what they are talking about and who spread rumors vs accurate information--
they have the idea that because TX is a "rustic" state in the SW or south that it lacks the skills to educate its student populace--because they think TX is mainly "hicksville" and "red neck"

TX was one of the first states that actually started to hold districts accountable to state standards and instituted the no-pass, no-play rules in the late 80s I think--when Ross Perot was chairing the committee to improve education in Texas--
since then TX has gone through three incarnations of state-wide testing for public schools and is moving from TAKS which most people hate because they think it is "mindless memorization" to something that is like end-of-course test for the material a student should know at end of ANY required secondary grade--
The people who have been critizing TAKS in the past are going to get a rude awkening when end-of-course shows up and students start to fail--TAKS is easy for most students who can read at grade level--
end of course is going to require mastery of the course material--meaning teachers will have to really teach the material and students will have to learn it--not something that has been basically dumbed down...
End of course is much more like the exams that students in NY state take --

but even if we improve our standards and teaching we are still working with students from ESL backgrounds and poverty and those two factors are head and shoulders going to drive a lot of what heppens in our state's schools...