JeffCo School Board (Recall, etc) (2015, condo, salaries)

[davidv]

Originally Posted by alliern

Just because a teacher has years and years of experience does make that teacher a *good* teacher. My kids have had teachers with 1, 2, 3 decades + of experience and it didn't mean squat. They were bad teachers. One teacher would break down into tears in front of her 7th grade science class everyday. She was mentally unstable, but had 25+ teaching years under her belt. I can't speak about what anybody else thinks, but I want my kids to go to school to actually learn about science, not learn why Ms. So and So is crying today. There are plenty of dinosaurs in the teaching profession that have lost the love of teaching and do not benefit the kids sitting in their classrooms.

On the contrary, my kids have had teachers that were new to the profession and those teachers came to school everyday with a smile on their faces eager to teach kids. It's not years of experience that matters...it's how the teachers conduct themselves in their own classrooms.

I was a pediatric nurse for 11 years in a NYC hospital. The same thing applied. Plenty of nurses with professional experience of 20+ years, but they weren't all considered great nurses. Bedside manner counts as a nurse and some developed a thick skin to bedside manner over their years of experience.

You are absolutely right about some older teachers

I have seen those teachers and something should be done. A teacher can be fired, it just takes action by the principal to document it. The lack of firing a teacher is a failure in leadership, but no one wants to admit that.

Did you or other parents find out why this teacher was crying every day? Why not? My guess is that it didn't happen quite the way you heard it. Maybe she cried once or twice, and then it became a game of let's see if we can make Mrs. So and So cry.

There are many older teachers, especially in advanced classes, that are irreplaceable in their knowledge of the curriculum and system. I know older and younger AP teachers. The older teachers have a much better grasp of the curriculum, and their students have better success on the AP tests.

Without going into specifics, younger teachers have a lot to learn, who will teach them if you drive out the older teachers?

One more thing. The teachers that are leaving are getting jobs in other places, most notably Boulder Valley. Don't think for a minute that the teachers Boulder Valley is hiring are the Mrs. So and So types that are burned out.

[nele]

Someone posted a rebuttal list put out by Jeffco Students First, a political organization, entitled “Jeffco School Board Recall – Fact Checking”. One of the items on the list reads:

The board did not support full day kindergarten for the neediest families. The board is funding free full day kindergarten for all low income students in the district by directing dollars to follow the student.

First does anyone know what "directing dollars to follow the student" means? It's easy to find news stories from the past year about this school board voting not to expand full-day kindergarten, despite budget survey preference (71%), the relatively low cost (300K) and a way of obtaining the required kindergarten evaluation. But I have no idea what this "fact" means.

Second, Jeffco Students First is registered as a 501c4 tax-exempt group. It’s headed by a conservative fund-raiser and tea party activist, Sheila Atwell, who is not a Jeffco schools parent. Useful to know when you are reading a list of items entitled “fact checking” on this issue.

[guyatwork37]

Originally Posted by eatsDEN

In general, I would hope that the district has a sufficient human resources & career development program in place to sustain and contribute to continued academic excellence in the local schools...

Any large entity is in the same boat... personnel churn happens, unfortunately
sometimes very large contributors leave and entities have to cope...

As an outside observer, I agree that personnel churn happens at all places of employment. But there is a difference between people leaving a job because "it's just not for me" and a well respected, tenured employee leaving with the parting remarks of "I don't think they have the students' best interests at heart". That's a really bad sign.

[eatsDEN]

Useful to know when you are reading a list of items entitled “fact checking” on this issue.

Just as it's useful to know who's behind the other materials being distributed supporting the recall...

[TechMike]

Originally Posted by eatsDEN

Just as it's useful to know who's behind the other materials being distributed supporting the recall...

Near as I can tell, parents in the district are responsible for the materials supporting the recall. Do you have information that might suggest otherwise?

[eatsDEN]

Originally Posted by guyatwork37

As an outside observer, I agree that personnel churn happens at all places of employment. But there is a difference between people leaving a job because "it's just not for me" and a well respected, tenured employee leaving with the parting remarks of "I don't think they have the students' best interests at heart". That's a really bad sign.

I agree it seems harsh, but the reality is that the issues is highly politicised, and I'm not really sure I
can trust the intent of folks playing to the media outlets in this fashion...

I've talked to folks within the district, and think that most of the ruckus can be traced back to a few days after the new board
members were elected...

[eatsDEN]

Originally Posted by TechMike

Near as I can tell, parents in the district are responsible for the materials supporting the recall.

I tend to believe this is by design...

I hope you've had the opportunity to sign... think there were folks along Wadsworth gathering them yesterday...

[step33]

Yes it is by design, a LOT of PARENTS are MAD!!

One of the actual issues here is that the board majority is constantly pushing the idea that there are just some "mean activist union thugs" that don't want change. Their totally inept hand picked former communications specialist kept pushing that line with some of her recent comments. The idea WNW claim is that it's somehow some small group manipulating things to make them look bad - and that's ridiculous.

First, they don't need any help looking bad -their actions/conduct handle that just fine (take the time to listen to a board meeting - ANY of them and you'll see that).

And they continually dismiss the fact that there are a LOT of parents that do not want the changes they are pushing (and it's "PUSHING" it's not collaboration or "working together" in any way). Dismissing us parents that have asked for moderation and being reasonable is honestly one of the main driver's of this recall effort. They just aren't listening to anyone that disagrees with them. And that includes their own staff.

Example: Last year a deal with teachers was negotiated by district staff and the teachers and then that deal was tossed out - in favor of a new deal that Witt pretty much made up on his own (or at least presented as such) and then got quickly ratified over the objections of numerous constituencies.

I'm a parent. I've NEVER spoken to someone from the Teachers union (well, I guess except my kid's teachers, who have also never spoken to me about the board). And I've also yet to speak to someone who agrees with this board. That said, I don't hang in Tea Party circles so perhaps I need to go to a meeting to find that constituency

Also when one board member came to my school (Newkirk) I went to that PTA meeting. A meeting where he found ZERO support for most of his group's policies. ZERO. And that was all parents talking. You'd think these folks would be politically astute enough to moderate some positions in the face of this - but they don't.

I commend them for getting elected in a low turn-out year, and mobilizing their base. But, at this point I just don't believe the WNW base is really parents. Heck, I have friends who have kids in JeffCo charter schools that believe these three have to go. That's not a good sign for them - they've just vastly overstepped what is reasonable.

And again, my real hope is to get them out and get the school board back out of the news. It shouldn't be there, and with any "reasonable" approach by WNW, we wouldn't be at this point. But, they made their moves, and now we've got a recall going.

[eatsDEN]

The thing is, folks in the community that support the board, and the election results are not
"out there" - they are spending their days working for a living, having dinner with friends/family, normal day to day stuff...


I've interacted with numerous folks that fall into that category.

Granted, I also know unhappy constituents...

I think it is important to review any actions they've taken with an objective lens, and make your decision based upon your own.fact finding results...

Personally, I think the rebuttal to the charges levied against the board is probably a good place to start any discussion on the merits of the effort...



This is vague, can we talk specifics?

ample: Last year a deal with teachers was negotiated by district staff and the teachers and then that deal was tossed out - in favor of a new deal that Witt pretty much made up on his own (or at least presented as such) and then got quickly ratified over the objections of numerous constituencies.*

[step33]

Originally Posted by eatsDEN

The thing is, folks in the community that support the board, and the election results are not "out there" - they are spending their days working for a living, having dinner with friends/family, normal day to day stuff...

Excuse me!!! What do you think I do every day? This is EXACTLY the same dismissive attitude coming from the extremist board members!

I work for a living! I had dinner with my family last night (like every night, around the dinner table). Over the weekend I even had dinner with friends AND family at the same time. I've driven to work, gone to the store, worked on my house, taken kids to appointments and activities - you know - normal day to day stuff.