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Well, maybe you should check my post history. I was very optimistic when I moved back here in June. Heck, I still am. I don't spend my time berating the city out of sheer pleasure. Rather, I critique the areas that need improvement. People I talk to out of state are always asking me, "Is it as bad as they say it is?" I give them the god's honest truth about the city. I give them the positive aspects and I give them facts about what needs to improve still. What they do with that information is up to them. I spent a lot of time in the city this past year. More so than any of my local friends or family that have been here their entire lives. My friends make fun of me because of how dedicated I am to the city. They tell me I'm wasting my time, blah, blah, blah. The fact is, I don't think you'll meet anyone else who's a bigger advocate for Detroit's turn around.
I completely agree with you. It seems like most people on the Detroit boards are overly positive about Detroit. One of my friends who relocated from NYC to Detroit said is that people in Detroit don't like to talk about Detroit's problems. They always seem to mention the good and forget about the bad. Perhaps that is due to the outside media being so negative about Detroit. However, if you don't even discuss the problems then it is very hard to change it.
I completely agree with you. It seems like most people on the Detroit boards are overly positive about Detroit. One of my friends who relocated from NYC to Detroit said is that people in Detroit don't like to talk about Detroit's problems. They always seem to mention the good and forget about the bad. Perhaps that is due to the outside media being so negative about Detroit. However, if you don't even discuss the problems then it is very hard to change it.
Tekkie- TAKE ME WITH YOU TO COLORADO
WHAT!?!? where!?!? These Detroit forums have the WORST "grass is greener" type mentality you will ever witness in your life. On top of the negative media. It's honestly one of the worst things about Detroit.
Me and a buddy went downtown to watch the football game last night. When it was time to go, we realized what a cluster-**** it was downtown. First off, it started snowing pretty bad. So that didn't help the flow of traffic. Secondly, there weren't any police out directing traffic. Thirdly, there were absolutely no salt trucks or plows cleaning up the streets prior to this mad rush. The streets surrounding Grand Circus Park were essentially a parking lot. Furthermore, driving on the roads was like driving on ice. It took us about 1.5 hours to drive a distance that would typically take 20 minutes.
I realize that the city doesn't have much money for funding many public services. However, I feel like this will be a detriment to the city in terms of attracting people to live down there. I noticed earlier in the day how incredibly bad most of the roads were, particularly in the residential areas. It was so bad that I didn't want to turn down the streets in fear that my car would get stuck. Apparently they do not believe in plowing or salting the majority of the roads in the city. It just baffles me that such a basic service can be forgotten or ignored. Does the city really not have the funding for such a basic service like this? That would really be concerning to me if I were ever to consider relocation down there.
Btw, after rereading Tekkie's post, I came to realize that the streets that aren't plowed are the streets nobody uses. A huge fact of the matter is that with many areas vacant, it makes a lot less sense to plow every road when hardly any of them get traffic on a daily basis.
I completely agree with you. It seems like most people on the Detroit boards are overly positive about Detroit. One of my friends who relocated from NYC to Detroit said is that people in Detroit don't like to talk about Detroit's problems. They always seem to mention the good and forget about the bad. Perhaps that is due to the outside media being so negative about Detroit. However, if you don't even discuss the problems then it is very hard to change it.
Tekkie- TAKE ME WITH YOU TO COLORADO
Who's stopping you from moving where you want?
"Discussing the problems" is just code for "bashing". You don't think the problems are "discussed" sufficiently? Believe me, on this forum very little that is new has been presented by "constructive critics", but new positives have been posted here - apparently much to your annoyance.
I have zero interest in bashing any city, and since that is a childish exercise, I don't understand why any adult would want to engage in it unless they have mommy issues or some other impairment. The bashers never discuss solutions constructively or point up what positives are occurring (what you call "overly positive") and this stands out like a sore thumb. I get the impression that you love to "discuss the problems" mainly as a hissy fit indulgence and little else.
And your friend from NYC is dismayed that Detroiters don't like to discuss its problems (which I don't believe anyway). Maybe he is as overbearing on it as you are. The question is, why do you love it so much?
Well, maybe you should check my post history. I was very optimistic when I moved back here in June. Heck, I still am. I don't spend my time berating the city out of sheer pleasure. Rather, I critique the areas that need improvement. People I talk to out of state are always asking me, "Is it as bad as they say it is?" I give them the god's honest truth about the city. I give them the positive aspects and I give them facts about what needs to improve still. What they do with that information is up to them. I spent a lot of time in the city this past year. More so than any of my local friends or family that have been here their entire lives. My friends make fun of me because of how dedicated I am to the city. They tell me I'm wasting my time, blah, blah, blah. The fact is, I don't think you'll meet anyone else who's a bigger advocate for Detroit's turn around.
Well....you sure have a strange way of showing it. You do not come across, at all, like a Detroit booster.
Everything is relative. It all depends on what one is used to. Someone who grew upon on Chicago's south side, or north Philly, Baltimore, SE DC and many of the African American concentrations in large urban areas will find similar situations and conditions as Detroit's. However, if a person basically was raised in the suburbs or a predominately white area......yeah.....there will be a much starker contrast than what one is used to.
To be honest, the concept of "cities" are passe to me. To me, there are "human settlement areas". The Detroit human settlement area has about 5 million people. It has wealthy areas and poor areas. Such is true of every human settlement area of the country. I can go to the human settlement area in which I currently live in find crime, blight and decay and I can go to areas where there is extreme wealth. A particular race dominates each of those areas just like it does in Detroit. If they made a "city" of the poor and crime ridden section of this human settlement area.....it would have statistics very similar to Detroit's. The average black person, where I live, does not have it that much better than the average black person in the Detroit area.
Well....you sure have a strange way of showing it. You do not come across, at all, like a Detroit booster.
Everything is relative. It all depends on what one is used to. Someone who grew upon on Chicago's south side, or north Philly, Baltimore, SE DC and many of the African American concentrations in large urban areas will find similar situations and conditions as Detroit's. However, if a person basically was raised in the suburbs or a predominately white area......yeah.....there will be a much starker contrast than what one is used to.
To be honest, the concept of "cities" are passe to me. To me, there are "human settlement areas". The Detroit human settlement area has about 5 million people. It has wealthy areas and poor areas. Such is true of every human settlement area of the country. I can go to the human settlement area in which I currently live in find crime, blight and decay and I can go to areas where there is extreme wealth. A particular race dominates each of those areas just like it does in Detroit. If they made a "city" of the poor and crime ridden section of this human settlement area.....it would have statistics very similar to Detroit's. The average black person, where I live, does not have it that much better than the average black person in the Detroit area.
Again, you really need to look at my post history in this sub-forum. I think it's been pretty balanced, with a mix of things I like about Detroit and things I don't like. Sometimes our own biases get in the way of how we perceive things to be though. That said, since you're clearly a huge advocate for Detroit, your bias probably guides you to see only the negative qualities I've posted about Detroit. Why don't you take a look at my posts throughout the year. I'm sure you'll find plenty of positive things I've said about Detroit as well. Heck, several months back I was getting chewed out by suburbanites who were claiming how unsafe and decadent Detroit is. Sometimes you just can't win.
Who's stopping you from moving where you want?
"Discussing the problems" is just code for "bashing". You don't think the problems are "discussed" sufficiently? Believe me, on this forum very little that is new has been presented by "constructive critics", but new positives have been posted here - apparently much to your annoyance.
I have zero interest in bashing any city, and since that is a childish exercise, I don't understand why any adult would want to engage in it unless they have mommy issues or some other impairment. The bashers never discuss solutions constructively or point up what positives are occurring (what you call "overly positive") and this stands out like a sore thumb. I get the impression that you love to "discuss the problems" mainly as a hissy fit indulgence and little else.
And your friend from NYC is dismayed that Detroiters don't like to discuss its problems (which I don't believe anyway). Maybe he is as overbearing on it as you are. The question is, why do you love it so much?
There's a lot of anger and vitriol in the tone of this post. I don't agree that "discussing the problems" is just code for "bashing". If there are evident problems that the city needs to improve, why shouldn't it be discussed? As long as there are proposed (realistic) solutions involved in the discussion, then I don't really consider it to be bashing.
Detroit sucks! = Bashing
Detroit should provide better city services to areas of high pedestrian/automobile volume to attract more people into the city = constructive criticism
Who's stopping you from moving where you want?
"Discussing the problems" is just code for "bashing". You don't think the problems are "discussed" sufficiently? Believe me, on this forum very little that is new has been presented by "constructive critics", but new positives have been posted here - apparently much to your annoyance.
I have zero interest in bashing any city, and since that is a childish exercise, I don't understand why any adult would want to engage in it unless they have mommy issues or some other impairment. The bashers never discuss solutions constructively or point up what positives are occurring (what you call "overly positive") and this stands out like a sore thumb. I get the impression that you love to "discuss the problems" mainly as a hissy fit indulgence and little else.
Thank you!
Let me propose this. If the leadership of this nation, including both political parties, as well as the main stream media, spoke gloom and doom about America and its future....the country would eventually collapse from the change in human consumption and investment behavior resulting from the negative narrative.
There is a reason why "consumer sentiment" otherwise or previously known as "consumer confidence" is measured and tracked as a leading economic indicator, along with other metrics. Its due to the fact that economics, in a capitalistic model, is largely a behavioral science whose outcome or performance is often the result of self fulfilling prophecy. In other words, the economy can be "talked down" or "talked up" based upon whether the talk is positive or negative, as behaviors are influenced by the talk.
In light of that, no one who truly understands economics and the concept of self fulfilling prophecy can claim to be a Detroit advocate while constantly accentuating the negatives....because such talk is what drives Detroit down and has driven it down for the last few decades. Positive talk is "stimulative" while negative talk is "depressive". Hence, even if there is more negative than positive to tell, all those who are trying to stimulate Detroit's recovery and growth will focus on the positives more than the negatives.
Let me propose this. If the leadership of this nation, including both political parties, as well as the main stream media, spoke gloom and doom about America and its future....the country would eventually collapse from the change in human consumption and investment behavior resulting from the negative narrative.
There is a reason why "consumer sentiment" otherwise or previously known as "consumer confidence" is measured and tracked as a leading economic indicator, along with other metrics. Its due to the fact that economics, in a capitalistic model, is largely a behavioral science whose outcome or performance is often the result of self fulfilling prophecy. In other words, the economy can be "talked down" or "talked up" based upon whether the talk is positive or negative, as behaviors are influenced by the talk.
In light of that, no one who truly understands economics and the concept of self fulfilling prophecy can claim to be a Detroit advocate while constantly accentuating the negatives....because such talk is what drives Detroit down and has driven it down for the last few decades. Positive talk is "stimulative" while negative talk is "depressive". Hence, even if there is more negative than positive to tell, all those who are trying to stimulate Detroit's recovery and growth will focus on the positives more than the negatives.
Oh, the irony. Just a few months back I was saying the exact same thing on this forum. I think a lot of the threads/posts ended up getting deleted because it ended up being a mud-slinging competition, so I couldn't immediately find one to quote. Arthur Digby Sellers and I used to go back and forth, just ask him.
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