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Many foods contain lauric acid, for example, oats contain small amounts of it. Coconut oil is a zero cholesterol oil.
In any case, a fat that increases both HDL and LDL is a fat that would increase your total cholesterol.....not exactly a good thing.
LOL. Not familiar with Type A LDL are we? Low cholesterol is correlated with violent behavior and depression. Not exactly a state of mind that I prefer being in.
So, as I said, there is no reason to believe that coconut oil is healthful. Also why would I want to consume some grease with no nutritional value?
Coconut oil is not "zero cholesterol", it is zero cholesterol. That's because it's more chemically stable at higher degrees. "zero cholesterol" oils are processed and are high in O6 fatty acids, which we get too much of in a standard Western diet anyway. Coconut oil has also been shown to switch LDL to a type A which is actually good for you. Saying LDL is the "bad cholesterol" is junk science at best, similar to saying that cars are fast or that runners are slow.
“[After one week,] only group C exhibited a reduction in [waist circumference]... Group S presented an increase... in total cholesterol, LDL and LDL:HDL ratio, whilst HDL diminished ... Such alterations were not observed in group C. It appears that dietetic supplementation with coconut oil does not cause dyslipidemia and seems to promote a reduction in abdominal obesity.”
Hmmm...interesting. The "zero cholesterol" oil seemed to not help on waistline yet the coconut oil did.
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Chicken is not a rich source of omega-6, in fact, chicken has more saturated fat than omega-6.
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Some conventionally raised meats like chicken and pork are particularly high in Omega-6. If you want to bring your intake of Omega-6 down as much as possible, then it makes sense to choose the leaner portions of those meats.
Problem with eating the leaner portions is that you're now on a low fat diet.
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As I mentioned, if omega-6 fatty acids were indeed unhealthful you would see negative health consequences form eating nuts and seeds which tend to be high in omega-6. Per 100 calories, almonds have 4~5 times more omega-6 than chicken and almonds aren't even that high in omega-6 compared to other nuts and seeds. But you don't see negative consequences, instead eating nuts and seeds is associated with lower rates of heart disease.
Nuts offset the negative effects of O6 and they are consciously eaten in small enough quantities because people are still hooked on the low-fat fad, so they are limiting their portions of nuts. For different reasons, even the primal/Paleo folks agree on limiting portions.
Let's look at the original hypothesized trend line:
Now let's add a few countries our esteemed "scientist" left out and observe that trend line.
Wait, not liking this trend line. Doesn't prove my theory. Try some other countries:
Hmm...I know, let's try some other countries and see if we can't get that trend line positive again.
Isn't that strange? Trend line seems to transform depending on which data is selected from his study. I wish when I was publishing that I could just as easily cherry pick data points and get my picture on Time magazine.
Here's another interesting tidbit about beef tallow, originally put in McD's fries before "safer" trans fats were put in:
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Also, stearic acid is less likely to be incorporated into cholesterol esters. In epidemiologic and clinical studies, stearic acid was found to be associated with lowered LDLcholesterol in comparison with other saturated fatty acids.[8] These findings may indicate that stearic acid is healthier than other saturated fatty acids.
Low cholesterol is correlated with violent behavior and depression. Not exactly a state of mind that I prefer being in.
Many street drugs (and alcohol) and malnutrition will lower your cholesterol so an association between violent behavior and low cholesterol in a western country could occur but would not be causal. But low cholesterol is the norm for human populations, its only more recently that people have high cholesterol. If you look at traditional societies that have average cholesterol levels of around 140.
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Originally Posted by saigafreak
Coconut oil is not "zero cholesterol", it is zero cholesterol. That's because it's more chemically stable at higher degrees. "zero cholesterol" oils are processed and are high in O6 fatty acids, which we get too much of in a standard Western diet anyway.
So coconut oil doesn't have cholesterol but its not a "zero cholesterol oil".....hmmm Okay.
Coconut oil is processed, after all, how else do you separate the oil from whole coconuts? But again, why would I want to eat some grease with no nutritional value?
Hmmm...interesting. The "zero cholesterol" oil seemed to not help on waistline yet the coconut oil did.
There is no link to a study in that article.
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Originally Posted by saigafreak
Nuts offset the negative effects of O6 and they are consciously eaten in small enough quantities because people are still hooked on the low-fat fad, so they are limiting their portions of nuts. For different reasons, even the primal/Paleo folks agree on limiting portions.
Americans have never been hooked on low-fat diets, at no point in the last few decades have Americans reduced the total amount of fat in their diet.
So omega-6 is okay if its from nuts but bad if its from an oil? Hmm...okay.
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Originally Posted by summers73
For those citing the lipid hypothesis:
Posting some graphs with no citations doesn't demonstrate anything, the lipid hypothesis has been studied over decades and there are numerous studies, of a variety of types, that have demonstrated a link between saturated fat intake and heart disease. The only thing that has changed more recently is that its now understood that what you replace saturated fat is important as well, namely, if you replace saturated fat with sugar and refined carbohydrates it doesn't result lower your risk for heart disease. On the other hand if you replace saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats in nuts, seeds, etc and fiber rich whole grains, legumes, etc it will lower your risk for heart disease.
Coconut oil is processed, after all, how else do you separate the oil from whole coconuts? But again, why would I want to eat some grease with no nutritional value?
The oil is retrieved through cold "process", meaning it is simply pressed out, cold without heat. You cannot obtain fat from corn, "canola", or vegetables without significant chemical processing.
You are confusing dietary cholesterol with cholesterol in your body. Ingesting dietary cholesterol can actually REDUCE your body's cholesterol. Additionally, you seem to consitently ignore how many saturated fats shift LDL from type B to type A which is entirely benign.
Nut and veggie oils absolutely suck in comparison to olive, coconut, beef tallow, etc. Potentially cancer causing and no health benefit because nut and veggie "zero cholesterol" oils are extremely chemically unstable even under their smoke point.
So omega-6 is okay if its from nuts but bad if its from an oil? Hmm...okay.
Correct. Nuts are eaten in small quantities but since you were incorrect about chicken not having significant amounts of omega-6, you have now been schooled on the subject.
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Posting some graphs with no citations doesn't demonstrate anything, the lipid hypothesis has been studied over decades and there are numerous studies, of a variety of types, that have demonstrated a link between saturated fat intake and heart disease. The only thing that has changed more recently is that its now understood that what you replace saturated fat is important as well, namely, if you replace saturated fat with sugar and refined carbohydrates it doesn't result lower your risk for heart disease. On the other hand if you replace saturated fat with polyunsaturated fats in nuts, seeds, etc and fiber rich whole grains, legumes, etc it will lower your risk for heart disease.
lol @ whole grains. A slice of whole wheat toast is the glycemic equivalent of a snickers bar with the fiber content of some flax seed. Personally, I'd opt for the snickers if I had a sweet tooth.
Saturated fat in beef tallow has been associated with lower LDL (wiki it also). Seems like the twilight zone doesn't it?
Of course I'm sure you're a proponent of cooking with "zero cholesterol" processed oils, but you didn't mention that because it wouldn't make your case particularly well.
You may have a point if someone completely cooked without any oils whatsoever, that it doesn't pose a risk. However, when you have Whole Foods selling carcinogens like canola oil on their "natural" shelves, you see the problem.
Last edited by saigafreak; 04-24-2014 at 06:18 PM..
Nowadays, virgin coconut oil (VCO) has become popular due to its beneficial effects. VCO has been shown to have anti-inflammatory, analgesic, and antipyretic properties [14]. VCO has been shown to decrease lipid levels in serum and tissue as well as LDL lipid peroxidation [15]. Consumption of VCO enhances antithrombotic effects related to inhibition of platelet coagulation and low cholesterol level [16]. VCO has been known to have higher antioxidant activity compared to refined coconut oil [17]. It has also been proven that VCO enhances antioxidant activity and inhibits lipid peroxidation in rats [18]. Therefore, it is of great interest for us to investigate whether VCO is able to prevent hypertension in male rats given repeatedly heated palm oil.
This is consistent with VCO lowering my LDL and raising my HDL. Carcinogen oils such as corn, canola, and veggie from the smoking process oxidize and help bring on hypertension in individuals. VCO and beef tallow do not because it is more stable at higher temperatures.
The oil is retrieved through cold "process", meaning it is simply pressed out, cold without heat. You cannot obtain fat from corn, "canola", or vegetables without significant chemical processing.
You don't need chemicals to extract oils from seeds and nuts, canola is extracted from rapeseed and may or may not use chemical extraction depending on what you buy. But whether you're cold pressing, expeller pressing, using chemical extraction....its all processing and the end product is a grease product with little nutritional value.
If I wanted to eat coconut I would eat actual coconut or, at the very least, coconut milk. Why would I want to eat extracted coconut grease?
This study has nothing to do with coconut vs vegetable oils, this study looked at virgin coconut oil in comparison to copro oil which is another type of coconut oil.
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Originally Posted by saigafreak
Nut and veggie oils absolutely suck in comparison to olive, coconut, beef tallow, etc. Potentially cancer causing and no health benefit because nut and veggie "zero cholesterol" oils are extremely chemically unstable even under their smoke point.
The stability and smoke point of nut and vegetable oils depends on the oil. But, personally, I don't care much which grease product is the least bad.....they are all grease products with no nutritional value. But there is no reason to believe that coconut oil and beef fat are better alternatives.
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Originally Posted by saigafreak
Correct. Nuts are eaten in small quantities but since you were incorrect about chicken not having significant amounts of omega-6, you have now been schooled on the subject.
Great, so people should eat nuts and seeds and avoid coconut oil. Sounds good.
You didn't "school" me on anything, only ~15% of the fat in chicken is omega-6. Chicken is richer in saturated fat and monounsaturated fat than omega-6.
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Originally Posted by saigafreak
lol @ whole grains. A slice of whole wheat toast is the glycemic equivalent of a snickers bar with the fiber content of some flax seed. Personally, I'd opt for the snickers if I had a sweet tooth.
Actually its not. The snickers bar, due to all the grease in it, has a relatively low glycemic index. Whole grains have been routinely linked to lower rates of heart disease, type 2 diabetes......so I wouldn't concern myself with their glycemic index.
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Originally Posted by saigafreak
Of course I'm sure you're a proponent of cooking with "zero cholesterol" processed oils, but you didn't mention that because it wouldn't make your case particularly well.
You don't need chemicals to extract oils from seeds and nuts, canola is extracted from rapeseed and may or may not use chemical extraction depending on what you buy. But whether you're cold pressing, expeller pressing, using chemical extraction....its all processing and the end product is a grease product with little nutritional value.
The difference is that the end product is less stable under heat if it's artificial oil from nuts, rapeseed, or vegetables.
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If I wanted to eat coconut I would eat actual coconut or, at the very least, coconut milk. Why would I want to eat extracted coconut grease?
I guess if you never stir-fry anything on a skillet in your entire life, then you never need something good for you like coconut oil. Good point. Personally, I enjoy stir frying with non-cancer causing oils. If you bake everything dry and it works for you or just eat everything raw, then I guess you're good to go.
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The stability and smoke point of nut and vegetable oils depends on the oil. But, personally, I don't care much which grease product is the least bad.....they are all grease products with no nutritional value. But there is no reason to believe that coconut oil and beef fat are better alternatives.
It seems from the pubmed literature that VCO lowers LDL, raises HDL and doesn't promote cancer while carcinogen oils do the opposite especially when taken to above 350 degrees.
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