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Old 04-06-2016, 04:50 AM
 
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That's fantastic that you can gift her with running. A dream owner.

Does she chew bones?

I programmed my dog to chew Gumabone/Nylabones when he was a baby and so when I used to come home from work he'd go chew the excitement out.

That's why they "bring you a toy" - it's not that they want to give you a toy it's how they calm themselves.

Try initiating her into non edible non-destructible Nylabones.

You may have to sit and hold them before she gets the point.

It may or may not work.

You may have to start doing a run in the morning too. LOL
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Old 04-06-2016, 06:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
You may want to consider an activity like nosework for her. It actually tires them out, but it can be a very calming and "focus oriented" activity. And it's easy to teach and easy to learn. Keeps them busy on a rainy day
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
So you missed the part where she states she immediately takes the dog out on a 5K?
Scissors, a run only works the body and won't be enough for an active smart dog. An activity such as nose work or rally that exercises the brain and necessitates a high level of focus is as valuable as a walk/run, and will potentially tire the dog out more than physical activity- or at the very least is necessary to keep the dog engaged and burn off the need for mental exercise.
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Old 04-06-2016, 06:37 AM
 
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Thanks for the ideas!

Maybe it just takes time and maybe she will always be a spaz. It's hard to ignore a dog that springs up from standing on all fours to eye level and tries to lick your face at the same time. Lol

I've tried treats and even her tennis ball when I get home. It's no use, she ignores those and is focused on me. But again, maybe I just need more time. This dog has me spoiled with how easy she is to train.

And thank you for the mind stimulation ideas too. She's a smart dog. Very smart. She went from untrained shelter dog to obeying sit and stay nearly 100% of the time. She also knows down, shake, roll over and is starting to understand leave it. She doesn't get hush to stop barking but she will learn. She learned how to walk properly on her leash. And with the help of friendly neighbor dogs she's learning that she doesn't need to fear other dogs. It's great to see her play.

And this is in just two weeks!

So I think she needs something mental as well to keep her happy. I am not sure how that will calm her when I come home, but I think it will be good for her overall. Puzzle toys are too easy so we've been working on tricks and other training. I'm trying to teach her to pick up and put away all her toys!

By the way, that rainy day where we couldn't go for a run, I spent about 30 minutes throwing a ball down the stairs and her fetching while running up and down. Wasn't the same as going outside.
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Old 04-06-2016, 07:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twelvepaw View Post
Scissors, a run only works the body and won't be enough for an active smart dog. An activity such as nose work or rally that exercises the brain and necessitates a high level of focus is as valuable as a walk/run, and will potentially tire the dog out more than physical activity- or at the very least is necessary to keep the dog engaged and burn off the need for mental exercise.
LOL I can't believe you think giving food treats when someone gets home from work calms the mind and exercise doesn't.

And that's what was recommended. Even though the OP said THEY RUN THE DOG and her issue was ONLY about the short time when she walks IN. The OP's QUESTION was about when they WALK IN THE DOOR.

We'll just have to disagree on that.

I don't know why you people love to disagree/debate with me or think you're going to "educate" me since I'm NOT EVER going to change my core beliefs. Just state what YOU think about YOUR ways and let me state MINE. I never said there was no place for mental stimulation but THAT is NOT the question.

I'll go with MY experience as a dog walker who does literally THOUSANDS of walks per year.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 04-06-2016 at 07:25 AM..
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Old 04-06-2016, 07:19 AM
 
10,599 posts, read 17,888,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaLind View Post
Thanks for the ideas!

Maybe it just takes time and maybe she will always be a spaz. It's hard to ignore a dog that springs up from standing on all fours to eye level and tries to lick your face at the same time. Lol

I've tried treats and even her tennis ball when I get home. It's no use, she ignores those and is focused on me. But again, maybe I just need more time. This dog has me spoiled with how easy she is to train.

And thank you for the mind stimulation ideas too. She's a smart dog. Very smart. She went from untrained shelter dog to obeying sit and stay nearly 100% of the time. She also knows down, shake, roll over and is starting to understand leave it. She doesn't get hush to stop barking but she will learn. She learned how to walk properly on her leash. And with the help of friendly neighbor dogs she's learning that she doesn't need to fear other dogs. It's great to see her play.

And this is in just two weeks!

So I think she needs something mental as well to keep her happy. I am not sure how that will calm her when I come home, but I think it will be good for her overall. Puzzle toys are too easy so we've been working on tricks and other training. I'm trying to teach her to pick up and put away all her toys!

By the way, that rainy day where we couldn't go for a run, I spent about 30 minutes throwing a ball down the stairs and her fetching while running up and down. Wasn't the same as going outside.

You proved my point.

Also don't use the tennis ball, that signals her it's time to be EXCITED AND PLAY. NOTE: K9 working dogs get the REWARD of their favorite tug toy or ball AFTER they work. Sometimes that tool is shaken and shown BEFORE work so the dog knows it's time.

If your dog requires exercise when you get home and it's raining find a place to go do it. I used to walk them up and down my high rise parking garage which is also on an incline and more tiresome. Yes I realize not everyone has access to it.

I also walk in rain. Just not lightening and thunder which here, in FL is very very common.

Again, I wasn't really kidding when I said maybe you have to run her in the morning. That's PREFERABLE because you're leaving a dog with a calm brain. OR if you can afford it, hire a dog walker who runs them for mid day. I don't do runs, because I work ALOT of dogs. My clients with that need hire specific dog RUNNERS who sometimes use a bike or even rollerblades, too.

I assume your dog is calm after her 5K or you would have said otherwise?

Last edited by runswithscissors; 04-06-2016 at 07:28 AM..
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:03 AM
 
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Oh she's really calm after we get back from our run. She falls asleep a lot afterwards! Lol

The storm we had least the kind I'd walk or run in. I run in light rain but not that pouring stuff with high winds. Running her in the morning is a good idea but I might have to wait until summer when it's light earlier. When I get up its still dark and I leave just a little after sunrise. I just can't see well enough to run. I walk her about half a mile in the morning. Maybe I can just walk her a mile or so instead.
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Lake Country
1,961 posts, read 2,251,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
That's fantastic that you can gift her with running. A dream owner.

Does she chew bones?

I programmed my dog to chew Gumabone/Nylabones when he was a baby and so when I used to come home from work he'd go chew the excitement out.

That's why they "bring you a toy" - it's not that they want to give you a toy it's how they calm themselves.

Try initiating her into non edible non-destructible Nylabones.

You may have to sit and hold them before she gets the point.

It may or may not work.

You may have to start doing a run in the morning too. LOL
We do this too. "Get your toy" when we come home anytime there is too much frenzy. It was very unstructured training...like it worked immediately...which leads me to believe that our dogs who needed it naturally understood that it was a good outlet for their excitement and that they preferred an outlet over the frenzy. I might be giving their brains too much credit on this but it was and continues to be so interesting how well this has worked for our excitable dogs.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Lake Country
1,961 posts, read 2,251,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twelvepaw
Scissors, a run only works the body and won't be enough for an active smart dog. An activity such as nose work or rally that exercises the brain and necessitates a high level of focus is as valuable as a walk/run, and will potentially tire the dog out more than physical activity- or at the very least is necessary to keep the dog engaged and burn off the need for mental exercise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
LOL I can't believe you think giving food treats when someone gets home from work calms the mind and exercise doesn't.

And that's what was recommended. Even though the OP said THEY RUN THE DOG and her issue was ONLY about the short time when she walks IN. The OP's QUESTION was about when they WALK IN THE DOOR.

We'll just have to disagree on that.

I don't know why you people love to disagree/debate with me or think you're going to "educate" me since I'm NOT EVER going to change my core beliefs. Just state what YOU think about YOUR ways and let me state MINE. I never said there was no place for mental stimulation but THAT is NOT the question.

I'll go with MY experience as a dog walker who does literally THOUSANDS of walks per year.
Scissors, I don't wanna change your beliefs but I am gonna comment on this merely for educational purposes for the many who lurk on C-D. BTW, that is the very reason some of us often counter comments here...to provide rationale for and against what others post. We are not trying to change individual poster's ideas but trying to provide food for group thought.

This is a well known concept among agility trainers: 1) toys used as a reward enhance speed and drive 2) food used as a reward enhances thought and/or position. That said, there is certainly overlap between the two and exceptions for individual dogs and specific situations.

Examples:
1) I throw a toy beyond the exit of the weave poles to speed up my dog in the poles and to encourage him to drive forward with intensity. His brain isn't thinking much at all but his body is screaming.
2) I reward my dog with food low to the ground between his front legs and a little bit behind his front paws when he is in the 2 on/2 off position for contacts (A-frame, dogwalk, teeter) to encourage him to lower his head for his 2o/2o position which teaches my intense, speeding dog to think about rocking back on his rear end during the descent to be able to slow down to achieve that 2o/2o position. His brain is thinking and his body is responding.

A common example of how exercise doesn't work the same for all dogs: some high drive agility dogs run much more focused if well exercised before a run whereas others just ramp up higher after that exercise and instead require some thoughtful obedience (heeling, stays) before a run to settle down and focus.

Since the dog is in a heightened state (both brain and body) when the OP arrives home, exercise at that moment is prolly only gonna ramp things up for most dogs. But practicing a behavior that requires thought at that moment can bring the dog's brain down from a frenzied state into a thoughtful state. The body then follows the brain. The question is how to shift the dog's brain from frenzy to thoughtful.

A tired dog is a good dog. No doubt about that. But frenzy upon the owner's return home can be a separate issue since even well exercised dogs exhibit this behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaLind View Post
It's hard to ignore a dog that springs up from standing on all fours to eye level and tries to lick your face at the same time. Lol
As others have suggested, I would ignore this dog upon arriving home. Yeah, it's hard when she's jumping up to your eye level but you can do it. To do otherwise is encouraging her brain/body frenzy. I would just keep turning my back. Even if this takes 10 minutes. Patience is a key factor that we humans often lack when training our dogs. If we would simply wait it out (when it is safe to do so, of course) while maintaining our training protocol (ignoring the dog and removing our attention, for example) instead of expecting an immediate response we would enjoy more success.

This works for most dogs. But a few smart, obsessive dogs can learn to enjoy this ("I jump and mom turns! I jump and mom turns!") as a new game. Especially if mom neglects to reward the first moment of calm...I cannot stress how important that is! If you don't teach the dog what works then you are risking teaching her a new fun game.

The instant she calms you can reward her with something that doesn't send her into a frenzy. Something that requires thought. Not something that ramps her up. If you petting her ramps her up then you do not pet her. If the ball ramps her up then you do not show her the ball. You could try giving her a bully stick the moment she calms. Most dogs adore bully sticks and they are a very safe chew. That means you must have the bully stick on you when you come in the door so that you are able to reward her at the exact moment she calms (keeps all four feet on the floor, for example) instead of having to walk somewhere to get it since your walking could ramp her up again. And for her to understand that her calm (all four feet on the floor) is what got her the bully. The bully then will encourage more calm by encouraging her to "chew the excitement out" (as scissors wrote) as she sets about chewing it. Once she has practiced this a lot you can try switching to another less desirable chew like a Gumabone/Nylabone if you don't wanna continue giving bullies.

Every dog is different and there is no single way to successfully address such behaviors for all dogs. A bit of trial and error is the norm.

Another easy way to address this is to crate the dog every time you leave...and OP I am sorta surprised you aren't doing that since she is so young and there is so much potential for her to get in trouble/practice undesirable behaviors when unsupervised...and simply not allow her out of the crate until she calms. It can look like this:

OP comes home and dog is going crazy in the crate. OP patiently waits it out until dog calms in crate and then reaches to open crate door. Dog starts going crazy in crate again or just tries to push out. OP takes hand away from crate door. OP waits until dog calms then reaches to open crate door. Dog goes crazy again or just tries to push out. This can take some repetitions until dog learns that each time she ramps the door won't be opened...patience is vital and easy once you get the hang of waiting. Once dog has calmed then OP starts to open crate door. Dog starts going crazy in crate again, etc. OP closes crate door. Process repeats until dog learns that each time she ramps the door won't be opened. Once the dog remains calm for the crate door starting to open then OP opens crate door further. Dog starts going crazy in crate again, etc. OP closes crate door. Do you see the process? Eventually the dog will learn that she doesn't get out of the crate unless she is calm and doesn't try to push out. This lesson sticks because there are no commands and no corrections beyond the dog not getting what she wants...the dog learns *for herself* what she has to do to get what she wants. This process is non-confrontational since the OP is saying nothing and merely removing the opportunity to get out of the crate. The beauty of this is that the dog has changed from a frantic state to a calm state before you are even physically available to her. The other beauty is that it teaches her some self control. All without commands, without food, without toys and with using what we call environmental rewards.
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:31 AM
 
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Thanks again for the ideas. It's going to take some time, I know. I bought some nylabones and I'm going to try that as a reward. Petting her does indeed set her off again.

For the sake of clarity I am crating her when I'm not home. She tries to chew things like furniture and cords so I don't trust her if I can't watch her. I left her alone for 15 minutes one day when I stepped outside and a neighbor talked to me. In that time my dog took the toilet paper from the bathroom and TPed the house. She is perfectly calm and still in her crate until I open the door. She even walks out calmly then BOOM!

I joke that my new dog had two settings On and Off! She's either a bundle of energy or she's calm and cuddly or simply asleep.

But at least I know she can be calm. So that's a plus.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaLind View Post
Thanks again for the ideas. It's going to take some time, I know. I bought some nylabones and I'm going to try that as a reward. Petting her does indeed set her off again.

For the sake of clarity I am crating her when I'm not home. She tries to chew things like furniture and cords so I don't trust her if I can't watch her. I left her alone for 15 minutes one day when I stepped outside and a neighbor talked to me. In that time my dog took the toilet paper from the bathroom and TPed the house. She is perfectly calm and still in her crate until I open the door. She even walks out calmly then BOOM!

I joke that my new dog had two settings On and Off! She's either a bundle of energy or she's calm and cuddly or simply asleep.

But at least I know she can be calm. So that's a plus.
That's like my kelpie mix. He is currently curled up on an easy chair sound asleep. But he'll lose his mind if I get up and ask him if he wants to go outside. The Catahoula is 4, so he's a bit calmer unless it's feeding time or he thinks a trip to the dog park is about to happen. The kelpie goes from mellow to nuts in 0.2. He'll calm down eventually though - he's only about 2.
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