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I just finished reading "Liar's Poker" by Michael Lewis, it deals with the company culture of Salomon Brothers (investment bank and trading firm) during the 1980's.
One quote that struck me as interesting was... "the more money people make, doesn't make them rich, it simply gives them new levels of poverty."
I'd have to agree with the above statement. It seems the more money we make, the more we want-- and we still feel poor.
I just finished reading "Liar's Poker" by Michael Lewis, it deals with the company culture of Salomon Brothers (investment bank and trading firm) during the 1980's.
One quote that struck me as interesting was... "the more money people make, doesn't make them rich, it simply gives them new levels of poverty."
I'd have to agree with the above statement. It seems the more money we make, the more we want-- and we still feel poor.
Does anyone else agree?
It may not have to do with "want," for most people. The more they make, the more things are going sky high at the same time (gas at $4/gal within a few months, and clothing and feeding a family, plus utilities costs). Many folks are just running in place....or the treadmill is racing forward faster than they can run.
I just finished reading "Liar's Poker" by Michael Lewis, it deals with the company culture of Salomon Brothers (investment bank and trading firm) during the 1980's.
One quote that struck me as interesting was... "the more money people make, doesn't make them rich, it simply gives them new levels of poverty."
I'd have to agree with the above statement. It seems the more money we make, the more we want-- and we still feel poor.
Does anyone else agree?
Not really because they are poorer. Human technology has disguised that fact they people have been essentially thrown off their land which is now capitalized, financialized and owned with debt. So instead of paying property taxes for government services, it goes to bankers and their hookers.
Yes, I do believe that, because the more you make, the more you want, and, even if you dont make a lot, if your 'wants' are minimum, then you can live a good life.
My boss said something to me awhile back. He basically said, his life was a lot less stressful when he didn't have money. I can see it. The more you get, the more you feel you need more to feel secure. I save a lot of my money, and it just never seems to be enough. There's always that "what if" thought in the back of your mind. When you think about it, most of us are a health condition away from being bankrupt. That's what makes you realize, we are playing a game we just can't win.
And so what if you earn more than the average Joe? Your paying taxes to subsidize his lower income, especially if he has kids to feed. Your basically working that much harder to ensure his children don't starve. May not be his fault he doesn't earn enough, but your paying the difference. At the end of the day, neither of you goes hungry, so aren't we more or less on the same level? Money is the means to an end. When it comes to eating, you both get the same results, correct?
And examining the middle class in America, or at least what was... Sure they had wealth on paper. Their houses appreciated in value for decades, but that came to an end. For most, that was their largest investment, so many saw a reduction in wealth by over half. Can they be considered middle class any longer? If I ran out and bought a house for half what they did, does that automatically make me middle class? Either middle class has been brought down a notch, or the barrier to entry is that much lower.
It seems to me that middle class and working poor are becoming one in the same. For the vast majority of "middle class", a job loss, health condition, lawsuit of some sort or other fork in the road could send them right into the poor house. Considering all these things, the boundaries between middle class and poor really aren't that well defined, and really all that great. Many have lived "middle class" for 20 years on debt, and some still do today out of necessity. Were they ever really "middle class"? I have money, but I wouldn't necessarily say my lifestyle is that of middle class. I could spin the debt wheel and live middle class all day long. I cannot do both. So what exactly would I be classified as?
More or less, we are all just serfs on the plantation whether we realize it or not. Loading up on debt to sustain a certain lifestyle further indentures you. If everyone just lives off of what they earned in a day, the vast majority of American's would appear to be working class poor. The American lifestyle was never really purchased and paid for, it was borrowed on debt all along. Only after 30 years of hard work and luck does it become paid for.
My boss said something to me awhile back. He basically said, his life was a lot less stressful when he didn't have money. I can see it. The more you get, the more you feel you need more to feel secure. I save a lot of my money, and it just never seems to be enough. There's always that "what if" thought in the back of your mind. When you think about it, most of us are a health condition away from being bankrupt. That's what makes you realize, we are playing a game we just can't win.
And so what if you earn more than the average Joe? Your paying taxes to subsidize his lower income, especially if he has kids to feed. Your basically working that much harder to ensure his children don't starve. May not be his fault he doesn't earn enough, but your paying the difference. At the end of the day, neither of you goes hungry, so aren't we more or less on the same level? Money is the means to an end. When it comes to eating, you both get the same results, correct?
And examining the middle class in America, or at least what was... Sure they had wealth on paper. Their houses appreciated in value for decades, but that came to an end. For most, that was their largest investment, so many saw a reduction in wealth by over half. Can they be considered middle class any longer? If I ran out and bought a house for half what they did, does that automatically make me middle class? Either middle class has been brought down a notch, or the barrier to entry is that much lower.
It seems to me that middle class and working poor are becoming one in the same. For the vast majority of "middle class", a job loss, health condition, lawsuit of some sort or other fork in the road could send them right into the poor house. Considering all these things, the boundaries between middle class and poor really aren't that well defined, and really all that great. Many have lived "middle class" for 20 years on debt, and some still do today out of necessity. Were they ever really "middle class"? I have money, but I wouldn't necessarily say my lifestyle is that of middle class. I could spin the debt wheel and live middle class all day long. I cannot do both. So what exactly would I be classified as?
More or less, we are all just serfs on the plantation whether we realize it or not. Loading up on debt to sustain a certain lifestyle further indentures you. If everyone just lives off of what they earned in a day, the vast majority of American's would appear to be working class poor. The American lifestyle was never really purchased and paid for, it was borrowed on debt all along. Only after 30 years of hard work and luck does it become paid for.
Great points, all. Lots to think about here. What do you think of the message of the OWS people (not who they are or what they look like, but their message)?
I'd have to agree with the above statement. It seems the more money we make, the more we want-- and we still feel poor.
Me too. Families pay less as a percentage of income for the basics than in previous generations yet the bar keeps being raised on what is an acceptable minimum of stuff.
Well then, what is the message of the OWS protesters?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl
Great points, all. Lots to think about here. What do you think of the message of the OWS people (not who they are or what they look like, but their message)?
You didn't ask me, you asked another poster for his opinion of the message of the OWS people. However, I couldn't help wondering what their message actually is. They don't agree on a message, and they don't agree on what changes they want made. It is clear they resent Wall Street, as do I, but such a diverse collection of protesters cannot articulate a coherent message, nor would I expect them to be able to. So they are protesting, for the sake of protesting. Very sad, as the country does really need some changes.
Me too. Families pay less as a percentage of income for the basics than in previous generations yet the bar keeps being raised on what is an acceptable minimum of stuff.
That depends upon what you consider to be the basics. Despite the crash, housing is still out of reach for a lot of young people starting out.
Also, we've got new expenses now considered necessary to make a living--such as a college education. It used to be you could get a decent job after graduating from high school and get trained in a specific profession. However, now you need at least a bachelors degree to be a secretary in most offices. As we all know, that education often doesn't come cheap.
I agree that there are more gadgets available than there used to be and that people seem to feel the need to travel a whole lot more--and that all costs money as well--but its not the only force at work here.
I just finished reading "Liar's Poker" by Michael Lewis, it deals with the company culture of Salomon Brothers (investment bank and trading firm) during the 1980's.
One quote that struck me as interesting was... "the more money people make, doesn't make them rich, it simply gives them new levels of poverty."
I'd have to agree with the above statement. It seems the more money we make, the more we want-- and we still feel poor.
Does anyone else agree?
It's because we are naturally status-driven apes who judge our wealth/status by comparing our own achievements with those around us.
Our wonderful *snicker* entertainment media has long taken advantage of that trait in advertising to attempt to make us feel unsatisfied with what we currently have and start reaching for the next-best thing, which creates a never-ending river of money for them. Unfortunately, Mass media's strategy has become powerful enough to drive our culture haywire.
Just look at it from a historical perspective:
In the 1950's when media saturation was relatively low, you were doing very well to have a 1200 sq foot home in the suburbs with a Buick in the carport, a little black and white TV and an air conditioner in the window. All these things related directly to real-world comfort and utility; they made life easier and more enjoyable.
In the 2000's when media saturation was at it's peak, "the good life" required a 4-6000 sq foot Mcmansion done in the latest HGTV stylish trend with all the latest appliances/electronics/ect., at least a 3 car garage full of stuff and 3 late model high end cars (at least one a boat of a SUV). None of it was truly necessary; in fact such a setup leads to more liability and less comfort because it costs so much to maintain such a lifestyle.
So what happened?
Media Saturation happened. Now instead of naturally comparing your status say, with your parents or siblings, or neighbors, you subconsciously compete for status personally (on your end only) with Bill Gates, Lady Ga Ga and a whole host of billionaires, movie stars, singers, and otherwise extremely wealthy, unusual people who you never have nor ever will meet, courtesy of Mass Media. The signs are everywhere; how many times have you seen a movie where the "out of luck" protagonist is living a millionaire's life? I think of Morgan Freeman in "The Bucket List"; a supposedly poor taxi mechanic who lives in a fabulous Pasadena Craftsman home that would cost several million dollars in real life or the "Friends" characters in their huge NYC loft. Just look; it's everywhere!
So in a nutshell, you feel poor because you've been feeding on Big Entertainment slop your whole life.
You've formed your beliefs on what "success" is, what "happiness" is and put that bar so high in the stratosphere that you could not realistically attain it, then feel depressed when you inevitably fail to attain something you never needed for happiness in the first place...and all so someone else could make a buck at your expense.
Meanwhile there are literally billions of people out in the rest of the real world who can hardly afford to even feed themselves, much less get a window air conditioner or old Buick. Silly monkeys!
Last edited by Chango; 11-15-2011 at 12:15 PM..
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Well then, what is the message of the OWS protesters?
