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So: Social Security is in fact held up and funded by alot of working class people that are required to pay the SS tax and then burn out and die before they receive even $1 of it back. And the Ponzi scheme becomes reverse welfare for the wealthy.
Sky-0
Who is more likely to max out the SS tax? A white-collar worker or "working class?"
Who is more likely to go out on SS disability?
Who is more likely to rely solely on SS as a means to fund retirement?
Proportionally, the "working class" receive more benefit relative to their input.
Most Medicaid people don't even though they can do it at no cost.
Medicaid doesn't pay for physicals where I live. Or lots of other "normal" things according to a doc I know. You need to have clear symptoms before they think of ordering any tests. And the max income is ~$14k/yr. Over that and you are in the plans with high deductibles.
There is a huge difference between wealthy people living longer and working class people never receiving $1 being the majority.
True, but he does make a good point that increasing the retirement age across the board because of increasing "longevity" is specious. Longevity is becoming highly skewed by income, and people at lower incomes are (particularly women) are not living longer at all.
His conclusions are all wrong, Social Security is not "skewed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydive Outlaw
And before anyone chimes in and says it is because wealthier people 'live healthier lifestyles and eat healthier food'. . . . .
But it's true.
Older low income types sit around drinking and smoking dope all day, and many "poor" people in general have Type II Diabetes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang
And yet another person doesn't understand the definition of a ponzi scheme...
You have confused the characteristics of a Ponzi Scheme with the legal definition.
A Ponzi scheme continues only so long as new investors can be lured into it so that the early investors can be paid a return on their "investment."
MLSMK Invs. Co. v. JP Morgan Chase & Co., 651 F.3d 268; 2011 U.S. App. LEXIS 13822
Any scheme that requires new investors to pay off existing investors is a Ponzi Scheme.
There is one and only one Element of Proof necessary to prove a Ponzi Scheme:
A "Ponzi scheme" is one "in which earlier investors' returns are generated by the influx of fresh capital from unwitting newcomers rather than through legitimate investment activity." SEC v. Credit Bancorp, Ltd., 290 F.3d 80, 89 (2d Cir. 2002) (internal quotation marks omitted).
The fact that no one lied, or that there is no promise of a ridiculous return amount on monies, or that there is a promise of any return at all on monies is totally and completely irrelevant.
Social Security still benefits lower income workers much more than it benefits higher income workers. It is certainly NOT some sort of wealth transfer from the working and middle class to the wealthy - in fact it is quite the opposite.
It is a "wealth transfer" only if you earn more than $86,000 annually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff
I think there is more to it than that, since we've always had alcohol.
But you haven't always had obesity and Type II Diabetes.
Even with this difference in life expectancy, the lower income worker is still getting more out of the system relative to what they paid in than the higher income worker.
From the article: "Social Security is designed so that people who pay more into the system receive more in benefits. After accounting for the differences in life expectancy, higher-income men who retire at 62 will receive five times their annual income from the system, whereas lower-income men will receive seven times their annual income. At age 70, higher-income men receive seven times their annual income, compared with nine times for lower-income men."
Also, it doesn't seem to take in to account that the lower income worker is more likely to be on SSDI (disability) or to eventually need Medicaid for a nursing home, vs. a higher income person.
Social Security still benefits lower income workers much more than it benefits higher income workers. It is certainly NOT some sort of wealth transfer from the working and middle class to the wealthy - in fact it is quite the opposite.
Again, Medicare is what you pay into via FICA payroll taxes. Medicaid is for the indigent and a few others paid for out of federal government general revenue split evenly with states.
Anyone poor enough to qualify can get Medicaid, only those who have paid the qualifying number of quarters can get Medicare.
It is however possible to draw both; persons who are on Medicaid reach qualifying age and if they do have enough quarters receive Medicare. Seniors who are indigent even with Medicare can also apply for Medicaid.
Who is more likely to max out the SS tax? A white-collar worker or "working class?"
Who is more likely to go out on SS disability?
Who is more likely to rely solely on SS as a means to fund retirement?
Proportionally, the "working class" receive more benefit relative to their input.
I previously had a job where everyone was paid within 25 cents of minimum wage. Our employer netted about $3 million per year. Our minimum wage employees enabled our employer to pay a boatload of SS tax.
[quote=SportyandMisty;43824601]And in other Earth-shattering news, people above the median are above the median, while those below the median are below the median.
Except in Lake Wobegon where everyone is above average.[/QUOTE]
Many are above average and NOT above the median.
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