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Sooo... Somewhere less than half of the current population feels the need to work for a living, given the combination of their savings, living situation, and the plethora social safety net programs.
While some of course are looking for a job, the overwhelming majority are not -- and yet they live their lives every day.
Right now I'm renting a room from a guy (NOT the owner, apparently he rents the house from an absentee landlord) who doesn't work. He lives in the house for free by overcrowding it with people renting rooms at a markup. He also is a weed grower/dealer. His adult daughter, her boyfriend, and their new baby also live in the house for free.
Right before moving into this one, I rented a room from a drunk (again, not the owner) who lived for free by overcrowding the house with room renters. He was a union construction worker, laid off when the housing bubble burst, he collected his full (at that time) 99 weeks of unemployment benefits, then got partial VA disability, then SS disability which paid better than his partial VA check, and has now aged into full SS retirement benefits (what happens to SSDI recipients when they reach Full Retirement Age). As a union worker, he literally "phoned it in" weekly to continue getting his unemployment benefits, and didn't have to actively look for work, as that is supposedly a union function.
What I had never seen previously is the emergence of a "middleman" class of creative slackers who arbitrage housing rents.
The OP represents another set of problem to the economy. If every $100,000+ pretax income household just spends money in Dollar Central and Walmart, all the malls as well as Amazon will go bankrupt. We may likely be in a recession if every consumer behaves in such manner.
[quote=freemkt;48459615]
Right before moving into this one, I rented a room from a drunk (again, not the owner) who lived for free by overcrowding the house with room renters. He was a union construction worker, laid off when the housing bubble burst, he collected his full (at that time) 99 weeks of unemployment benefits, then got partial VA disability, then SS disability which paid better than his partial VA check, and has now aged into full SS retirement benefits (what happens to SSDI recipients when they reach Full Retirement Age). As a union worker, he literally "phoned it in" weekly to continue getting his unemployment benefits, and didn't have to actively look for work, as that is supposedly a union function.
ote]
Right before moving into this one, I rented a room from a drunk (again, not the owner) who lived for free by overcrowding the house with room renters. He was a union construction worker, laid off when the housing bubble burst, he collected his full (at that time) 99 weeks of unemployment benefits, then got partial VA disability, then SS disability which paid better than his partial VA check, and has now aged into full SS retirement benefits (what happens to SSDI recipients when they reach Full Retirement Age). As a union worker, he literally "phoned it in" weekly to continue getting his unemployment benefits, and didn't have to actively look for work, as that is supposedly a union function.
He's just curious. The same thing has crossed my mind in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin
It's more than curious when you write a novel about, it clearly bothers the OP. It's jealously and it's not good way to live.
Worry about your own backyard.
Maybe he's wondering what angles there are out there to better one's lifestyle. E.g. side jobs/businesses, self-employment, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt
What I had never seen previously is the emergence of a "middleman" class of creative slackers who arbitrage housing rents.
They're schemers. They've existed for a long time, though it's the first I heard of it applied to housing. One of the guys I knew well growing up was a schemer. He just loved the idea of making a few bucks without really working much. I was with him in the late 80s when he made a quick $100 selling someone a list of names of people that may need a certain service. It made him as high as a kite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee
The OP represents another set of problem to the economy. If every $100,000+ pretax income household just spends money in Dollar Central and Walmart, all the malls as well as Amazon will go bankrupt. We may likely be in a recession if every consumer behaves in such manner.
I doubt many $100k households shop at Walmart or the dollar store. The malls seem to be in trouble but Amazon isn't going anywhere.
The OP represents another set of problem to the economy. If every $100,000+ pretax income household just spends money in Dollar Central and Walmart, all the malls as well as Amazon will go bankrupt. We may likely be in a recession if every consumer behaves in such manner.
The danger of that happening is so low it's not worth considering.
But people always like to talk about this issue in stark, all or nothing terms. A more realistic picture would be people gradually waking up to the fact that their excess consumerism isn't really making them happy and slowly but steadily increasing their savings rates. To some degree, this has already happened. The savings rate is now around 5.5%. Before 2008, it was barely 1%. Overall debt in the U.S. went down for several years even after the economy started growing again. So it is possible for the savings rate to go up and debt to go down without the economy collapsing.
And I would argue the kind of debt people are allowed to go into actually make our economy more unstable, because they have nothing to fall back on with the slightest bump in the economy--and then they can't pay their bills, which can also tilt the economy into collapse mode. That's exactly what happened in the years leading up to the 2008 recession.
You're under the assumption the landlord would even fix the problem, or fix it to a standard a homeowner would demand.
I had a weak AC in my last apartment. Second floor, westerly facing windows, in Indiana, not exactly a hellishly hot place most of the time. The AC struggled to keep the apartment below 75 in the summer. Power bills in the summer were triple what my winter heating bill was. I'd notified the landlord of the issue multiple times over the course of multiple summers. They would do something minor, but would otherwise rule it as functioning normally.
As a renter, I had no recourse here. I couldn't call my own contractor to even get a second opinion. The only repair techs were those who worked for the landlord, who had a vested interest in doing what the landlord requested. I couldn't replace the unit. I had to deal with the high power bills.
My girlfriend has a section 8 apartment with two window units. The AC has failed in each of those units - all it blows is ambient temperature air. The apartment is stuck in the 80s. The landlord refuses to repair the units.
A homeowner has far, far greater control of his day to day living situation than a renter does.
Is there a reason you can't just find a new place to rent? As a renter, you have the flexibility to uproot and move.
It's just me and my husband, no kids. Our household income is about $82k after taxes in an area with a relatively low cost of living ($50k in household earnings for a family of four is considered to be good, if not more than good). We also underbought with our house, big-time, and don't have a mortgage payment.
I'm also a very frugal person by nature. For me, it's fun to try to save money whenever possible. I love shopping at cheap grocery stores like Aldi. I love when I'm able to find a really good deal on things like clothes (As an example, I wear camis under my clothes every day, and I found out that Wal-Mart sells them for $1.68 a piece! I bought a ton, and out of like 20 of them, only one has started disraveling a tiny bit after over a year of everyday wear but is definitely still wearable under clothes...great value, IMO! I would NEVER pay $10+ for a cami again as long as this is an option. I also wear a lot of leggings, which can be had for $3-8 at Walmart, depending on the style...)
I don't mean this in a snotty way, but sometimes I think about the fact that we make a lot more than your "average" two-person (or even four-person+) household -- at least around here -- and I wonder how others make it. I honestly do. I'm not looking at others in a "judgey" type of way, but I'm genuinely curious.
I drive a 2013 Hyundai Elantra with a small monthly payment, and my husband has a paid-for 2002 truck. Like I said, I'm frugal on so many things. We don't have the newest and nicest stuff in our house, by far...we mostly have stuff we've accumulated over the past eight years. We have a 32" TV, not a huge big screen. My husband has a $29 phone. My phone was almost $600 because I need it for work (well, don't necessarily need it but am way better off with it), but I've had it for over two years now and am not even thinking about upgrading it.
I know it seems like a lot of rambling about nothing, but my point is...something is up. Even though we splurge on some things, my husband and I are frugal in soooo many ways, and we bring in more than your average couple (again, around here). And yet, I still find myself worrying about money sometimes...even without a mortgage, we still have home maintenance and repairs, car maintenance, utilities, etc. I feel like every time I turn around, there is something that requires hundreds of dollars...
And then I see couples who I know bring in less than half of what we bring in, and they have two expensive vehicles -- usually a truck and an SUV or two SUV's -- that carry $500 car payments each and that guzzle gas like it's nothing, PLUS the huge cost of tires for those huge things. They live in wayyyy bigger and better houses than we do. They are "too good" to shop at Wal-Mart and Aldi and Dollar General like I do, so they go to Target and Harris Teeter and the mall for everything. Starbucks constantly. Namebrand everything....chicks who haven't hit a gym in years are spending big bucks on yoga pants from Lululemon vs just buying a pair from Wal-Mart or Target or something.
And I just wonder how in the hell they are paying for it all. I'm so careful with our money and still feel like we really never have enough. What is considered a "normal" day for some of my girlfriends (who are SAHM's with HVAC or contractor husbands who bring home like $800 a week) is a major "splurge" day for me...something I'll do maybe once a month, max, but...
I'm not someone who is trying to "hoard" money or anything...I just know that if we spent at the rate that some of these people spend, we'd be "broke" in a couple of years...yet, we bring in more money and have fewer people in our household?
So....what is it? Are they skipping out on the important stuff (maintenance on the things you own, health and dental care for themselves, etc) and blowing it on stupid crap? Are they just in debt to their eyeballs? Please help me understand lol....
It's simple. I don't care what other people have. I don't care what other people are buying. I don't care what other people have for debt. None of my business! My bills are paid and that's all that matters.
I've seen crap work out of union and non union workers. I've been non union and union. Guys like that get turned around. They are known as hall rats. Trust me NOBODY wants those crapheads around. And if they stick around it's a very minimal time and they get treated like crap. We can't choose who we work with, but we can short call and turn them around. I get a lot of calls from foremen who ask me hey what do you think of so and so. Believe me union shops know who works and who doesn't.
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