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The only sense in which I think today's U.S. society is child-hostile is that you don't see any children playing, anywhere. They are all programmed within an inch of their lives. Then we wonder why they can't function as adults...
It is like kids don't exist outside anymore unless organized Saturday soccer...
One of my neighbors asked me who that man was coming and going down the street... told her it was the son that got a car and he has lived his entire life there... home from school into the garage and never to be seen outside... ever... he loves video and computers plus the fear that something might happen... we all walked to school... no one walks anymore.
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 09-18-2017 at 07:09 PM..
It depends on the country. Haiti? There is no middle class there. There is a fraction of a percent that has money, the rest of the 98% are poor. However, a country like Portugal, Mexico, Estonia, Brazil? I'd MUCH rather be middle class there than poor here. Being middle class is less about the particular items that you possess, and more about the economic options and layers of protection you have.
Too many people, especially on C-D, think that possession of things like smartphones or 60 inch LED TV's mean someone is doing alright. You can have those things in America and be in a very bad situation. I don't know how many times I have to tell older people on C-D that TV's and phones are freaking CHEAP nowadays, and possession of them means NOTHING. I have basically every gadget imaginable - tablet, smartphone, e-reader, laptop, desktop gaming computer, gps, LED TV, home theater, and will probably soon buy a smartwatch. I tend to buy the previous year's best model of all those things off of ebay... they are about half the retail price that way. Total cost to me for all of it... maybe $3000? Plus of course the phone and internet service subscriptions.
I've lived in some developing countries, most notably Mexico. You may not even have the room in a typical middle class flat for a 60 inch TV in some countries, but they are much more economically secure.
My definition of middle class is having a security or insurance against negative externalities such as job loss, death in the family or health crisis. A poor or marginal person will be ruined by one of these events, probably cannot cope. A middle class person can weather one or more.
It also has to do with what kind of opportunities can be provided for the kids. A poor person will not be able to set up the kids at all. A middle class person will be able to set up the kids quite nicely. The family I lived with in Mexico did not have as many gadgets as I do. They did, however, own a business & were able to send their kids to college to get decent jobs. The son was going to school to be in the media business. He was going to be just as middle class as his parents, if not a little bit better. That's the difference.
The poor in America are worse off in every conceivable metric - health, life expectancy, job stability, divorce rate, etc... than the "middle" or what I'll call "Professional" class in developing countries. Oh, but they have a stupid LED TV.
Excellent post. I hope everyone following this thread reads every word of it. I am an economist with an interest (although not a specialization) in international economic development and you captured the essence of poverty in a rich country: the inability to defend oneself against ordinary setbacks and to pass on one's advantages, whatever they are, to one's children.
I have over 3 decades of managing Section 8 rentals and being poor in America or at least the SF Bay Area means access to many avenues of assistance...
Example... a family of 3 living in a single family home with a market rent of $2800 and paying $53 a month in rent... again, driving a brand new 2017 Toyota and having custody of your 2 special needs grand-kids with provided school transportation, medical, meals, discounted or free utilities/phone/internet...
And yes... they have 3 flat screen TV and two laptops...
Just one example...
And no... there is no under the table dealing or sugar daddy in the picture bringing gifts or paying for things...
It really is amazing when you think about it... only in American can a family live in a $600k home and pay $53 month rent...
Yes...even though this is a pretty "dramatic" example when compared to the rest of the US (it is an expensive COL area in CA), I do think that in many cases, the upper-poor does better than the lower-middle to middle class.
I think a lot of people find themselves in a tricky situation on the lower end of the middle. They make too much to get help, and in fact, make "enough" that they are supposed to help subsidize others. Yet, some of the people they are subsidizing are living in nice homes with the help of Section 8 and get food stamps and Medicaid, while they are working 50-60 hours a week to try to avoid having their mobile home or modest home foreclosed on and to keep food in the house and insurance on their kids.
Yes...even though this is a pretty "dramatic" example when compared to the rest of the US (it is an expensive COL area in CA), I do think that in many cases, the upper-poor does better than the lower-middle to middle class.
I think a lot of people find themselves in a tricky situation on the lower end of the middle. They make too much to get help, and in fact, make "enough" that they are supposed to help subsidize others. Yet, some of the people they are subsidizing are living in nice homes with the help of Section 8 and get food stamps and Medicaid, while they are working 50-60 hours a week to try to avoid having their mobile home or modest home foreclosed on and to keep food in the house and insurance on their kids.
What about young people with low 6 figures in assets who are forced to live in poverty because of housing prices.
Too many people, especially on C-D, think that possession of things like smartphones or 60 inch LED TV's mean someone is doing alright. You can have those things in America and be in a very bad situation. I don't know how many times I have to tell older people on C-D that TV's and phones are freaking CHEAP nowadays, and possession of them means NOTHING. I have basically every gadget imaginable - tablet, smartphone, e-reader, laptop, desktop gaming computer, gps, LED TV, home theater, and will probably soon buy a smartwatch. I tend to buy the previous year's best model of all those things off of ebay... they are about half the retail price that way. Total cost to me for all of it... maybe $3000? Plus of course the phone and internet service subscriptions.
My definition of middle class is having a security or insurance against negative externalities such as job loss, death in the family or health crisis. A poor or marginal person will be ruined by one of these events, probably cannot cope. A middle class person can weather one or more.
so, lets say i make $250k, am i middle class if i have a winter cabin, a summer villa, and full time home? add in snow mobiles and boats for the vacation toys.
if i lost a job, i would be "financially" ruined...
before someone says, i could sell of those extra things, i could point to a poor person and say they can sell off those tvs, phones, etc in your example
so how do the two examples differ? both would be classifed as same right?
so, lets say i make $250k, am i middle class if i have a winter cabin, a summer villa, and full time home? add in snow mobiles and boats for the vacation toys.
if i lost a job, i would be "financially" ruined...
before someone says, i could sell of those extra things, i could point to a poor person and say they can sell off those tvs, phones, etc in your example
so how do the two examples differ? both would be classifed as same right?
You'd get way more money for the cabin and villa than they would selling the tv.
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