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I haven't had it in me yet to talk about the sh!tshow that has become my father-in-law's estate.
Suffice to say: Things got nasty.
There are lots of pieces to this, but one we need to focus on is this:
A few years ago my FIL moved $1mm USD into the US banking system. At the time he was briefly considering getting his green card and retiring in Florida. We were aware of all of this as we even talked to a lawyer on his behalf about the immigration process for him. The lawyer advised my husband to NOT be a co-signer on the account because my husband is a citizen and would have been subject to taxation on any income in the account. He did add my sister-in-law as a co-signer. She lives in Mexico.
Last fall my husband was given power of attorney for the account though, which, of course expired when my FIL passed away in January.
There was a will made in 2019. My FIL sent a copy to each of his kids and his wife, all of whom were to be beneficiaries. Everything was split evenly and it gave everyone a sense of direction. My husband, along with his two siblings, was going to become partial owner of the family business and my FIL even began the process of bringing him in by giving him a directorship in the business at the end of the year. We were about to pivot our lives.
Unfortunately, that will was never actually signed...
The will being used is from 2012 and it is lopsided... There is no wife... My husband is not a part of the business.
The US account was in the new will, but not in the old will. In the new will the US account is split by the three kids.
There is a lot of drama going on, but basically my SIL is claiming that the US account is all hers and that her dad meant for her to have it to pay off her new home. This is not what the new will suggested, but hey.. that will was never signed, right?!?
My brother-in-law, also in Mexico, is the executor.
He called Citibank to ask about beneficiaries and Citi refused to speak to him and said that he needs to talk to the co-signer (my sister-in-law). We are not talking about asking WHO the beneficiaries are, but if there are even beneficiaries.
Now this last part seems... wrong.. at least in our legal system (this is US bank). It's my understanding that the named and legal executor has authority and legal obligation of the entire estate regardless who is listed as a beneficiary or not.
What do you think?
There are a lot of details I'm leaving out. The matter isn't just between my husband and his siblings, but also the (second) wife who was left with nothing (beyond a small, unsubstantial pension).
Just speculating here...Is the executor of the signed will (the only one that is valid) a US resident? If not, the US bank may refuse to speak with him about the account because he hasn't been declared executor by that US state. Just because a will names someone as executor doesn't mean they have authority to act...they still need a court decree. The decree would be presented to the bank, probably along with the death certificate. Maybe he still needs to petition a US probate court to be designated executor before they'll recognize him as such.
Last edited by Parnassia; 07-15-2020 at 11:36 AM..
Just speculating here...Is the executor of the signed will a US resident? If not, the US bank may refuse to speak with him about the estate because he hasn't been declared executor by a US state. Just because a will names someone as executor doesn't mean they have authority to act...they still need a court decree. Maybe he still needs to petition a US probate court to be designated executor before they'll recognize him as such.
No, he is not, and we have speculated it could be something like this which is why I mentioned where they live.
My husband has access to legal services as a employment benefit. He will call and see if they can give a direction.
I haven't had it in me yet to talk about the sh!tshow that has become my father-in-law's estate.
Suffice to say: Things got nasty.
There are lots of pieces to this, but one we need to focus on is this:
A few years ago my FIL moved $1mm USD into the US banking system. At the time he was briefly considering getting his green card and retiring in Florida. We were aware of all of this as we even talked to a lawyer on his behalf about the immigration process for him. The lawyer advised my husband to NOT be a co-signer on the account because my husband is a citizen and would have been subject to taxation on any income in the account. He did add my sister-in-law as a co-signer. She lives in Mexico.
Last fall my husband was given power of attorney for the account though, which, of course expired when my FIL passed away in January.
There was a will made in 2019. My FIL sent a copy to each of his kids and his wife, all of whom were to be beneficiaries. Everything was split evenly and it gave everyone a sense of direction. My husband, along with his two siblings, was going to become partial owner of the family business and my FIL even began the process of bringing him in by giving him a directorship in the business at the end of the year. We were about to pivot our lives.
Unfortunately, that will was never actually signed...
The will being used is from 2012 and it is lopsided... There is no wife... My husband is not a part of the business.
The US account was in the new will, but not in the old will. In the new will the US account is split by the three kids.
There is a lot of drama going on, but basically my SIL is claiming that the US account is all hers and that her dad meant for her to have it to pay off her new home. This is not what the new will suggested, but hey.. that will was never signed, right?!?
My brother-in-law, also in Mexico, is the executor.
He called Citibank to ask about beneficiaries and Citi refused to speak to him and said that he needs to talk to the co-signer (my sister-in-law). We are not talking about asking WHO the beneficiaries are, but if there are even beneficiaries.
Now this last part seems... wrong.. at least in our legal system (this is US bank). It's my understanding that the named and legal executor has authority and legal obligation of the entire estate regardless who is listed as a beneficiary or not.
What do you think?
There are a lot of details I'm leaving out. The matter isn't just between my husband and his siblings, but also the (second) wife who was left with nothing (beyond a small, unsubstantial pension).
Did you guys see the movie Knives Out?
Well most bank accounts don’t have beneficiaries and won’t accept them. If the account was joint with rights of survivorship the executor wouldn’t have any claim to it or information as the ownership would fully transfer to the other account holders. Transfer on death is a possibility but I don’t know if Mexico as a jurisdiction allows it but if they do again the executor isn’t involved as the transfer of ownership occurs at death
You need a will that's been witnessed by a notary public. It should have an actual raised seal certifying it authenticity. Otherwise, it is not admissible to a probate court.
You need a will that's been witnessed by a notary public. It should have an actual raised seal certifying it authenticity. Otherwise, it is not admissible to a probate court.
Not true. It can be notarized but it can also be witnessed. Requirements for wills varies by state.
Neither my father or mother's wills were notarized. My father's was self-made and holographic, but he was careful to meet state requirements. No issues at all getting probate courts to recognize either of them.
Last edited by Parnassia; 07-15-2020 at 11:44 AM..
I'm not a lawyer but I believe the wife is entitled to "take against the will" if the will left her less than what state statutes specify if someone dies intestate (without a will). Here's an example from Missouri. If this happened in MO, she'd be able to claim half his estate even though she's not mentioned in the will.
Requirements differ from state to state. OP needs an attorney that understands pertinent law, in FLA, if that is the state where the money was deposited. You cannot navigate complex legal matters without legal representation. Your attorney is your advisor and advocate.
The international aspect may or may not complicate things.
Well most bank accounts don’t have beneficiaries and won’t accept them. If the account was joint with rights of survivorship the executor wouldn’t have any claim to it or information as the ownership would fully transfer to the other account holders. Transfer on death is a possibility but I don’t know if Mexico as a jurisdiction allows it but if they do again the executor isn’t involved as the transfer of ownership occurs at death
Okay. Thank you.
Honestly, I don't know what the account is. I think the funds could be in CDs. I'm not sure it matters.
If it is like what you say then I can see her claim clearly.
In this case things will only go down hill as my brother in law will be forced to level out the estate distribution through other means. For example, the house she is living in is still under her father's name. And all assets acquired after 2012 is to be split three ways. Technically, her brothers own majority of the home (and mortgage debt). They had talked about just transferring the title to her name and taking equal shares of the account, but now it's yet another pita because she will now have to use that money to buy her portion of the home. Using lawyers. And since the value of the home is less than the account my brother in law will have to tweak things inside the family business. Things that will make her look bad in front of the outside partners. Could very well risk the entire vote of confidence between her and the partners and employees.
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