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there seems to be a preoccupation with wealth vs non-wealth in this country ever since the bailouts, when the real focus should be on dishonesty vs non-dishonesty. we need to punish the dishonest and the corrupt (whether they are rich or poor). those who stole from american citizens need to be held accountable, but those who did not do not need to be lumped in that category.
i personally have no problems with physicians making money. they study for years to learn a skill that some people are incapable of learning, work harder than the average person, and often get more into debt than the average person to hone their skills. we do NOT want the dumbing down of doctors! we want well paid dedicated people who are ON TOP OF THEIR GAME. when people start dropping like flies because of incompetent medical care, then the crying will start in earnest.
i watch shows on TLC where people with all kinds of medical problems (tallest person, proteus syndrome, war injuries, etc.) come to the united states for help, because this is the country that is CAPABLE of giving them help. i forget how many nobel prizes in medicine the US has won, but it is quite high compared to the population of the rest of the world. we don't want to lose that advantage. there have been enormous advances in medicine that have saved and improved lives because of our system.
I agree with most of what you're saying here. But your last example merely illustrates that the US is good at extraordinary care. But we are absolutely TERRIBLE at preventing ocurrence of diseases that are, well....preventable. Most cases of diabetes and heart disease don't need to exist. About 1/3 of all caner is also preventable. This is scientists saying this, not just me making it up:
I blame most of that on insurance and our lack of anything remotely resembling a true free market in health care.
If people saw the true cost of their care, they would not go to such great lengths to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on an extra year of life. But as long as insurance or the government picks up the tab and hides the true cost, they have no problem with it.
If people saw the true cost of health care, they'd also be more likely to change their poor lifestyle habits. There used to be a saying "Better to pay the grocer than the doctor". But that is lost on people now because they don't know, care, or have much direct control over how much their health care costs.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 03-16-2010 at 06:37 AM..
Pharm has helped NOTHING in its complete existance. The only thing its managed to do is make people dependent upon it to cure their "symptoms". Private Pharm has never cured one single major illness, ever, and they like it that way. Curing illnesses is not profitable. Keeping people dependent on your medicine is.
Finally, I found something to agree with you on. I don't like your hyperbole, but you've got this one about 80% right.
And where do you think the money to run these places comes from? Also, most universities are partly funded by private companies to do research also.
My point is that the money does not need to come from capitalism. If the research is largely being done by scientists who are not motivated by profit, then the only real difference would be the source of funding.
Finally, I found something to agree with you on. I don't like your hyperbole, but you've got this one about 80% right.
Tell that to all the people who are alive today because of chemotherapy. Look at cancers like Hodgkin's Lymphoma. It used to be a death sentence, and now almost all patients live. What about diabetics living WAY beyond their old life expectancy. And hypertension, asthma, heart disease, etc, etc, etc. Human life expectancy has been rising due, in most part, to that same pharm industry you guys lament. It wasn't too long ago that people only lived until their 40s. Untreated hypertension will drastically shorten your life, but treated with medication, you can live to a normal life expectancy. I reject the notion that they dont cure or try to cure anything. If they come out with a definitive cure for ANYTHING, they will make a fortune, IMMEDIATELY. No company is going to sit on a cure and risk some other company patenting it first. I am open minded about most things, but none of this stuff ever made sense to me.
This is a little too "fringe" for my taste. I'll let this one stand on it's own.
This is French for, you cant find any example of big pharm curing anything. Its not fringe, its the truth.
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Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
It is still funded by capitalism. Without endowments, they cant do research. Endowments are usually made by alumni who have become successful in business.
The point is, its not neccessary for the money used for the funding to COME from capitalism. The scientists themselves, the guys actually doing the research, are pretty much not motivated by profit at all. They are making some salary far below what their discoveries are going to profit someone else, or the world in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
The rest of your comment is just nonsensical evasive gibberish. I dont know where you think that "revenue stream" is coming from. I have taken enough economics courses in my day to know it isn't coming from thin air. It is, for the most part coming from earnings as a result of work.
Work and capitalism are not synonyms. You are one of "those guys" who thinks the only alternative to capitalism is a welfare state that everyone lounges around and does nothing. You completely neglect the fact that its possible to both hate capitalism, AND be completely opposed to a welfare state (which is actually a symptom of mature capitalism).
This is French for, you cant find any example of big pharm curing anything. Its not fringe, its the truth. Originally Posted by Randomdude Pharm has helped NOTHING in its complete existance. The only thing its managed to do is make people dependent upon it to cure their "symptoms". Private Pharm has never cured one single major illness, ever, and they like it that way. Curing illnesses is not profitable. Keeping people dependent on your medicine is.
It's so far from the truth that most people dont need me to respond. Imagine a world without the pharm industry.
"Your child has strep throat? Oh, I hope it doesn't turn into rheumatic heart disease, or scarlet fever, or kidney failure. Well, good luck with that."
"What? You cant breath? You must be having an asthma attack. Try taking some slow deap breaths, maybe that will break it."
"Oh no. You can't move the right side of your body? You must have had a stroke. Unfortunately, we dont have any medication to help you so you will have to live out the rest of your life in a wheel chair, unable to talk.'
"I know they need to cut you open, but we have no drugs to put you to sleep or take away the pain."
Tell that to all the people who are alive today because of chemotherapy. Look at cancers like Hodgkin's Lymphoma. It used to be a death sentence, and now almost all patients live.
Chemotherapy does not "kill" cancer, it puts it in to remission. Some people are lucky enough to not have to deal with it again, but most arent. By the way, doc, why dont you give us a class on all the permanent damage to dozens of areas of the body, and the potential for secondary cancer to develop as a RESULT of the chemotherapy. Why dont you also tell us about the survival rate of chemo patients beyond 5 years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
What about diabetics living WAY beyond their old life expectancy. And hypertension, asthma, heart disease, etc, etc, etc. Human life expectancy has been rising due, in most part, to that same pharm industry you guys lament.
More examples of Pharm treating symptoms and not problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
It wasn't too long ago that people only lived until their 40s.
Yeah, in the mid 1800's. Then this thing called penicillin was invented, by a scientist in a university hospital, in 1928, and within 20 years, the life expectancy was up 10 years. I think it might have something to do with the fact that kids stopped dying wholesale before the age of 5.
Ironically, since 1948, we have only managed to pull the life expectancy up 9 years, dispite untold billions of dollars being pushed around big pharm.
However, checking a list of the most prescribed medicines in the US....it seems weve moved light years ahead in the production of mind control meds (about half of all prescriptions filled), and the associated BS industry of psychology. Did I mention, these drugs are highly addictive and are cash cows?
However, we still dont have a better answer for the actual treatment of the root cancer cause then chemotherapy, which was pioneered over ONE HUNDRED YEARS ago. By the way, how come we are not much closer to cures for AIDS or autoimmune disorders either? I bet more money is spent developing a depression pill in one year by one top pharm company, then ALL the money in any given decade being spent on finding a cure for Crohns disease, which completely devistates millions of people on the planet to the point of being handicapped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
If they come out with a definitive cure for ANYTHING, they will make a fortune, IMMEDIATELY. No company is going to sit on a cure and risk some other company patenting it first. I am open minded about most things, but none of this stuff ever made sense to me.
What is more valuable, keeping 10 million people addicted to your drugs to treat their symptoms for 60 years, OR, selling them a cure all pill, and those 10 million people are cured. Come on man, dont be stupid. There is a reason why they ADD chemicals to cigarettes. We will never see a cure for AIDS, cancer, or autoimmune disorders until they come out of a non profit agency, which, big pharm is probably spending a fortune to derail.
"Your child has strep throat? Oh, I hope it doesn't turn into rheumatic heart disease, or scarlet fever, or kidney failure. Well, good luck with that."
What is the most prescribed drug for strep throat by the way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
"What? You cant breath? You must be having an asthma attack. Try taking some slow deap breaths, maybe that will break it."
What? You cant breathe? Buy my inhalor, and, keep buying my inhalors for the rest of your life, because I have absolutely no intention of ever actually developing a cure, because then, youd just buy the cure pill, and wont have to buy my inhalors for the rest of your life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD
"I know they need to cut you open, but we have no drugs to put you to sleep or take away the pain."
Maybe you should do a little bit of research in to just how many anesthetics were developed by big pharm......
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