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It has nothing to do with money. The difference between private and public schools are the students and the environment they come from. If public schools had the same option of private schools and had the ability to kick out kids on a whim and select who they wanted, then there would be no issue.
Let me buy a barrel of the best apples ever made in the world, and throw in one bad apple. What happens?
This is pretty much it. Let me just keep my Pre-AP or AP students and kick everyone else out. Suddenly public school would be doing a fabulous job. Anyway, where does the OP get the idea that public education is crap in the first place? It makes me think that he hasn't done his homework and is just spouting off things he's heard. We aren't magically one of the top countries in the world for nothing. If you actually compare some TIMSS data you will see we are one of the top countries in the world for education.
Why do we have the finest athletes in the world, whether they be in high school, college or pro? Because we value athletic achievement. Why do we do poorly in academics, as a whole, compared to other nations? Because they value education and we don't. This is no puzzle, we simply care more about how our college teams do athletically than what they do academically. Having attended college in Oregon, I see the tremendous effort people put in attending games. They'll fill up a stadium or an arena, not caring about the cost these public venues carry in order witness meaningless games. Meanwhile public schools are being shut down, public libraries need to cut back due to lack of resources, academic achievement in all grade categories, including college, continues to collapse. What do you think is going to be the upshot? We have no one to blame but ourselves for whatever mess we find ourselves in. We threw our heritage away for sports, tv and video games.
Why do we have some of the finest athletes in the world, whether they be in high school, college or pro? Because we value athletic achievement. Why don't we do poorly in academics, as a whole, compared to other nations? Because they value education and we don't. This is no puzzle, we simply care more about how our college teams do athletically than what they do academically. Having attended college in Oregon, I see the tremendous effort people put in attending games. They'll fill up a stadium or an arena, not caring about the cost these public venues carry in order witness meaningless games. Meanwhile public schools are being shut down, public libraries need to cut back due to lack of resources, academic achievement in all grade categories, including college, continues to collapse. What do you think is going to be the upshot? We have no one to blame but ourselves for whatever mess we find ourselves in. We threw our heritage away for sports, tv and video games.
Test takers averaged 1,509 points out of a possible 2,400 in three sections, the same as last year.
Nearly 1.6 million members of the class of 2010 took the test, a record. Of those, 41.5% were minorities, up from 40% last year. College Board officials characterized the flat one-year change as encouraging because average scores typically drop as more students, and a more diverse range of students, take the test. They also noted that, over the last 10 years, as the minority participation rate grew 78.3%, math scores have climbed 2 points while critical reading scores have declined 4 points.
Test takers averaged 1,509 points out of a possible 2,400 in three sections, the same as last year.
Nearly 1.6 million members of the class of 2010 took the test, a record. Of those, 41.5% were minorities, up from 40% last year. College Board officials characterized the flat one-year change as encouraging because average scores typically drop as more students, and a more diverse range of students, take the test. They also noted that, over the last 10 years, as the minority participation rate grew 78.3%, math scores have climbed 2 points while critical reading scores have declined 4 points.
I base my statement on a comparison between nations, which shows that we have fallen behind the countries which have the highest academic achievement in the world. What you're basing your conclusion is on test within the US. If we're doing better taking standardized test, it sure doesn't show up on an international scale. We've in fact are falling further behind. I'll dig that up and get back to yass...
Test takers averaged 1,509 points out of a possible 2,400 in three sections, the same as last year.
Nearly 1.6 million members of the class of 2010 took the test, a record. Of those, 41.5% were minorities, up from 40% last year. College Board officials characterized the flat one-year change as encouraging because average scores typically drop as more students, and a more diverse range of students, take the test. They also noted that, over the last 10 years, as the minority participation rate grew 78.3%, math scores have climbed 2 points while critical reading scores have declined 4 points.
By your citations we seem to be getting kids to learn for the test. But that doesn't work too well when we compare our students to our international competition, which was what my point was initially. Nations will do well depending on what they value, and it doesn't seem we value education as much as we do athletics.....
By your citations we seem to be getting kids to learn for the test. But that doesn't work too well when we compare our students to our international competition, which was what my point was initially. Nations will do well depending on what they value, and it doesn't seem we value education as much as we do athletics.....
Your source is very outdated and there have been several more TIMSS tests since the very first one. I don't know that the source really proves your theory anyway. You really have to click on the source of your source as your source has their own agenda.
If we had charter schools/independent schools that weren't regulated out of existence then all of the special interest non sense would be stopped immediately. Those charter schools would actually have to spend the money on the students to get results. The schools that got the best results, would get increased attendance while the schools that didn't get results would go bankrupt. That would FORCE the schools to actually spend the cash on stuff that benefits the student instead of just scamming the money for their own special interest.
Which in the real world has turned out to be libertarian fantasyland- compare like student populations, and you're twice as likely to see decreases in academic performance when students move to the charter school as you are an increase in academic achievement:
Known as the CREDO study, it evaluated student progress on math tests in half the nation’s five thousand charter schools and concluded that 17 percent were superior to a matched traditional public school; 37 percent were worse than the public school; and the remaining 46 percent had academic gains no different from that of a similar public school.
The methodology of that study is sound and comprehensive, and the pro-charter crowd loves to change the topic when it comes up instead of talking honestly about that study.
This is pretty much it. Let me just keep my Pre-AP or AP students and kick everyone else out. Suddenly public school would be doing a fabulous job. Anyway, where does the OP get the idea that public education is crap in the first place? It makes me think that he hasn't done his homework and is just spouting off things he's heard. We aren't magically one of the top countries in the world for nothing. If you actually compare some TIMSS data you will see we are one of the top countries in the world for education.
Comparing how our students rank against the rest of the world. Thats how I get the notion that our public education sucks.
My 2 cents here---we're way too worried about stress in the educational environment, rather than learning.
any little thing that stresses a kid, and its immediately modified, etc. Is the class fidgeting? Oh, lets all stop, stretch, take a 'break". did little Johnny cry over having too much homework? Lets give him an IEP and modify the amount of homework he has.
Its so ridiculous I read in some districts they aren't allowed to mark corrections with a red pen---red is the color of anger, its "upsets" the poor little dears.
And don't study for a test---that might overstress them. All they are told is to "get a good night's sleep" and "take deep breaths" I'm so sick of that crap, especially for tests like SAT, ACT, TAKS, etc----oh, you can't study for them, its just what you've learned throughout the years, so, get a good night's sleep, and if you feel nervous, do deep breathing.
How about a little studying?I'm also sick of being undermined by the educationals system. My ds is failing in most subjects. The night before a math test I asked how he was studying, he said, oh, the teacher said not to study, to "relax" and "get a good night's sleep" he scored 11% on that test---That's right 11 our of 100. But hes' not "stressed" so guess that's the main objective. I'm sick of DS being hauled around from one counselor to another, to be told not to study, not to do homework, to "relax" WTH are they in school for, anyways, to take a rest?
If we'd admit a little stress into the system we might get some results, instead of what the educational system is cranking out now--counseling junkies!
Also, while I'm adding my 2 cents, do they ever get away from crayons, markers, etc? I thought when mine started middle school we'd seen the last of those, but they do that as much as in kindergarten. Oh, I know, all sorts of studies can be presented how kids learn by doing, etc, but crayons beyond 2nd grade are a bit babyish, to say the least. I've been told they are still coloring in high school Then, told not to do anything that stresses them...........kids in Japan are studying calculus in 6th grade, probably under stress, and out kids are coloring posters and doing deep breathing exercises!
Your source is very outdated and there have been several more TIMSS tests since the very first one. I don't know that the source really proves your theory anyway. You really have to click on the source of your source as your source has their own agenda.
Oh really? This was from the US National Center of Education Statistics 1998:
US 12th graders scored below the international average and are among the lowest of the 21 participating in both mathematics and science general knowledge. The US outperformed only South Africa and Cypress.
As recently as 13 years ago, we were bouncing at the bottom of academic achievement for math and science. If we have improved, it's because we aren't as crappy as we were before. The point that you're missing is that no excuse exists for scores this awful from any point in our modern history. Those folks who graduated hs in 1998 at 17 would be turning 30, and their scores demonstrate that they have a poor grasp of math and science, in general. Maybe you want to ignore that millions of Americans have an education on par with third world nations, but a few of us don't. And it has little to do with teachers unions or public employees, and the solution has nothing to do with creating charter schools and ridding the nation of public schools. This is the result of a people who don't value education compared to those that do. If that's difficult for you to comprehend I suggest that's your problem....
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Then, told not to do anything that stresses them...........kids in Japan are studying calculus in 6th grade, probably under stress, and out kids are coloring posters and doing deep breathing exercises!
